Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio] • Hacker News Board

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#11

Post by tenebrisalietum » Fri, Apr 02, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

infoseek12 wrote: post #3

cyberlab wrote: post #2

This is a synopsis of the book described here: https://www.versobooks.com/books/3184-breaking-things-at-wor... Breaking Things at Work. The Luddites Are Right About Why You Hate Your Job, by Gavin Mueller The basic gist is that software is eating people's jobs, and everything has to be an /app/ these days or it's not credible.

Can you explain how this relates to hackers being the new Luddites? I haven’t had a chance to listen to the podcast yet but I can’t see how it’s description or yours relates to the title.

Hackers in the classical sense don't like being part of an authoritarian structure.

What do you do when the technological world that you may have had a hand in creating turns on you, when technology and computing becomes an enslavement rather than a liberation? It makes sense for hackers to then find freedom without technology.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#12

Post by SCHiM » Fri, Apr 02, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #7

infoseek12 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how this relates to hackers being the new Luddites? I haven’t had a chance to listen to the podcast yet but I can’t see how it’s description or yours relates to the title.

I identify as a 'hacker' in the 2600/Phrack tradition, and I definitely feel like a luddite rejecting the centralization of control as everything moves into the cloud, and proliferation of anti-consumer software that disempowers. Linux and BSD are beginning to feel like the last bastions of true user freedom, and the only remaining place that I have any control over my destiny as a user (and creator) of software. DRM…

Grew up reading Phrack too. Work as pentester these days. I understand code deeply, and have tried my hand at everything from memory corruption exploits to javascript SPA apps.

I hate technology more and more. It's moving in the wrong direction. Almost everything technological seems to be used to increase control over individuals, extract money, track or predict.

No company can seem to withstand the lure and the power that comes from controlling, analyzing and aggressively tracking users.

Every traditional device that works just fine, now only has 'smart' alternatives available. The only value-add for the consumer appears to be that I can use my smartphone as the thermostat remote. The value for the energy company seems to be to better predict when to raise prices and bill & track me.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#13

Post by hn3333 » Fri, Apr 02, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #8

I sense a trend https://getpocket.com/explore/item/what-happens-to-tech-work...

Let's be realistic.. let's say you are a c++ programmer and want to learn some modern JS framework. I bet you it will literally take less than a week of concentrated study work for you to become better than 80-90% of people working with it. You can get a book on the subject, there's great tutorials, heck, just reading the reference will get you far.

This is true for a lot of stuff on youtube, coursera etc. I believe. It's for people who don't want to get to the destination faster, by reading a few books and doing the exercises in them.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#14

Post by nonameiguess » Fri, Apr 02, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

IAmWorried wrote: post #6

Beside the point, but IMO, all podcasts should have a transcription option as well. I unfortunately just don't have the attention span to listen to hours of people talking, but put it in text format and I have zero issues.

Yeah, I was tempted to comment that I guess I'm a Luddite because my reaction to seeing any link to a video or audio file is "please just give me text."

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#15

Post by kradeelav » Fri, Apr 02, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

IAmWorried wrote: post #6

Beside the point, but IMO, all podcasts should have a transcription option as well. I unfortunately just don't have the attention span to listen to hours of people talking, but put it in text format and I have zero issues.

Absolutely. It would also be a net benefit for those who can't hear well and/or also don't have the quietness/tech to listen in peace. Way too many times I've had to pass up on podcasts in general because there isn't a transcript.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#16

Post by thaeli » Fri, Apr 02, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #8

I sense a trend https://getpocket.com/explore/item/what-happens-to-tech-work...

Wow. That article starts with "programmers continually learn new technologies" and does a kickflip at the end into "so bootcamps are good". I admire the skill of whoever wrote that, but ugh - what a nasty piece of PR.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#17

Post by canistel » Fri, Apr 02, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #7

infoseek12 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how this relates to hackers being the new Luddites? I haven’t had a chance to listen to the podcast yet but I can’t see how it’s description or yours relates to the title.

I identify as a 'hacker' in the 2600/Phrack tradition, and I definitely feel like a luddite rejecting the centralization of control as everything moves into the cloud, and proliferation of anti-consumer software that disempowers. Linux and BSD are beginning to feel like the last bastions of true user freedom, and the only remaining place that I have any control over my destiny as a user (and creator) of software. DRM…

Denial of root/admin access too. Android - You are forced to void warranty, and try risky stuff. Once you are rooted, you have to play hide-and-seek with banking apps. Windows - You can login as admin, but unless you NSudo, you cannot stop certain services.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#18

Post by calvinmorrison » Fri, Apr 02, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #8

I sense a trend https://getpocket.com/explore/item/what-happens-to-tech-work...

My job offered to 'train' me in using salesforce, all paid trip with training etc. I switched jobs.

Now I read perl for a living so who knows if I made the right move!

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#19

Post by ethbr0 » Fri, Apr 02, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

SCHiM wrote: post #12

tomc1985 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I identify as a 'hacker' in the 2600/Phrack tradition, and I definitely feel like a luddite rejecting the centralization of control as everything moves into the cloud, and proliferation of anti-consumer software that disempowers. Linux and BSD are beginning to feel like the last bastions of true user freedom, and the only remaining place that I have any control over my destiny as a user (and creator) of software. DRM…

Grew up reading Phrack too. Work as pentester these days. I understand code deeply, and have tried my hand at everything from memory corruption exploits to javascript SPA apps. I hate technology more and more. It's moving in the wrong direction. Almost everything technological seems to be used to increase control over individuals, extract money, track or predict. No company can seem to withstand the lure and the powe…

I think you can simplify this entire thread into:

Software that's built with money, keeps making design decisions that increase profit.

Software that's built ambivalent to money, makes other design decisions.

Most software is built with money.

The only thing that feels like it will fix this is a software/hardware bill of rights. E.g. right to repair, right to source, etc. Otherwise, things will get more exploitive, as products get cheaper.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#20

Post by inglor_cz » Fri, Apr 02, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

nonameiguess wrote: post #14

IAmWorried wrote: post #6

Beside the point, but IMO, all podcasts should have a transcription option as well. I unfortunately just don't have the attention span to listen to hours of people talking, but put it in text format and I have zero issues.

Yeah, I was tempted to comment that I guess I'm a Luddite because my reaction to seeing any link to a video or audio file is "please just give me text."

That is a new kind of Luddite, called Erudite :)