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Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

polaris64.net

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Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#11

Why is this post not flagged vs this one? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26646048 What is the reasoning at HN for allowing one side of the story and censuring the other side. Very disappointed at HN moderators...

I do find it worrying how people here use flagging for anything that is controversial or where the community is highly divided, flagging is not for downvoting... these things need to be discussed not marked as irrelevant or inappropriate.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#12

Can anyone provide any more context on this graph?

I'm generating it every 10 minutes based on the current number of signatures on each of the letters. If you want the raw CSV it can be accessed here: https://www.polaris64.net/resources/support-or-ostracise-ric...

I did this as a way to visualise the number of signatures over time, just as a matter of interest.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#13
post #10

I've been talking with friends about this issue and it really seems to come down to this: for some reason "intermediate" consequences are just impossible to implement in bureaucracies or organizations in general. Clearly Stallman did some completely unacceptable things and that can't go unpunished. However, like in all organizations I've seen (especially universities or hospitals dealing with sexual harassment from p…

> for some reason "intermediate" consequences are just impossible to implement in bureaucracies or organizations in general

This is not particular to small organizations, it's a feature of the whole society. This attitude is one of the hallmarks of a move towards totalitarianism. There is no compromise possible, total defeat or total annihilation of opposing views are the only options.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#14
post #11

Why is this post not flagged vs this one? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26646048 What is the reasoning at HN for allowing one side of the story and censuring the other side. Very disappointed at HN moderators...

I do find it worrying how people here use flagging for anything that is controversial or where the community is highly divided, flagging is not for downvoting... these things need to be discussed not marked as irrelevant or inappropriate.

> these things need to be discussed not marked as irrelevant or inappropriate.

To be fair, "these things" are being discussed here every day, with lots of comments and no intent of suppression. Maybe some users are tired of seeing the same subject appear many times per day with no actual news, and they are flagging it as a form of protest. It would be still an inappropriate usage of flagging, but somewhat understandable.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#15
post #10

I've been talking with friends about this issue and it really seems to come down to this: for some reason "intermediate" consequences are just impossible to implement in bureaucracies or organizations in general. Clearly Stallman did some completely unacceptable things and that can't go unpunished. However, like in all organizations I've seen (especially universities or hospitals dealing with sexual harassment from p…

> for some reason "intermediate" consequences are just impossible to implement in bureaucracies or organizations in general This is not particular to small organizations, it's a feature of the whole society. This attitude is one of the hallmarks of a move towards totalitarianism. There is no compromise possible, total defeat or total annihilation of opposing views are the only options.

This isn't an attitude, it's a response to the reality that intermediate consequences are never implemented. Solve that problem and you'll solve this cancel culture stuff people are complaining about.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#16
post #10

I've been talking with friends about this issue and it really seems to come down to this: for some reason "intermediate" consequences are just impossible to implement in bureaucracies or organizations in general. Clearly Stallman did some completely unacceptable things and that can't go unpunished. However, like in all organizations I've seen (especially universities or hospitals dealing with sexual harassment from p…

While I agree with the essence of your comment, I find the statement "Clearly Stallman did some completely unacceptable things and that can't go unpunished" is questionable. First, it's not "clearly", because the main argument (that he was defending Epstein) is false. Second, as to "unacceptable", it depends to who and when - certain things that were acceptable 20 years ago are unthinkable now. Third, as for "can't go unpunished" - again, the question is who should judge the guilt and who is going to pass sentence.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#17
post #11

Why is this post not flagged vs this one? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26646048 What is the reasoning at HN for allowing one side of the story and censuring the other side. Very disappointed at HN moderators...

I do find it worrying how people here use flagging for anything that is controversial or where the community is highly divided, flagging is not for downvoting... these things need to be discussed not marked as irrelevant or inappropriate.

Flagging has been used for disagreement for a long time. Unfortunately, it seems that the number of controversial topics is steadily increasing so I wonder if flagging is still the optimal mechanism to handle it.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#19
post #10

I've been talking with friends about this issue and it really seems to come down to this: for some reason "intermediate" consequences are just impossible to implement in bureaucracies or organizations in general. Clearly Stallman did some completely unacceptable things and that can't go unpunished. However, like in all organizations I've seen (especially universities or hospitals dealing with sexual harassment from p…

While I agree with the essence of your comment, I find the statement "Clearly Stallman did some completely unacceptable things and that can't go unpunished" is questionable. First, it's not "clearly", because the main argument (that he was defending Epstein) is false. Second, as to "unacceptable", it depends to who and when - certain things that were acceptable 20 years ago are unthinkable now. Third, as for "can't g…

It's way more than the Epstein thing. This has been going on for years. Telling an undergrad he would kill himself if she didn't date him is one example.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#20
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with the essence of your comment, I find the statement "Clearly Stallman did some completely unacceptable things and that can't go unpunished" is questionable. First, it's not "clearly", because the main argument (that he was defending Epstein) is false. Second, as to "unacceptable", it depends to who and when - certain things that were acceptable 20 years ago are unthinkable now. Third, as for "can't g…

It's way more than the Epstein thing. This has been going on for years. Telling an undergrad he would kill himself if she didn't date him is one example.

Then ask yourself: When did this happen? Told by who? Any reliable evidence?
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