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Endless Operating System

endlessos.com

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Re: Endless Operating System

#11

Post by offtop5 »

jordache wrote: post #9
offtop5 wrote: post #6

Actually I think students need to learn to use apt. I swear, the entire reason I got comfortable with the command line is because when I was 16 I couldn't afford a Windows license, and I ordered a free Ubuntu CD. I'm still very good with the terminal and it serves me well in my six-figure career

think about barrier of entry. Your anecdotal life story of overcoming early challenges with linux, that benefited your subsequent career is likely not scalable to the entire human population. I think any reasonable person will align with the notion that low barrier of entry, coupled with an engaging curriculum to grow their level of computing expertise, will net much greater success.

But why not. The worst thing that happens is maybe a teacher needs to reflash the OS, if you tell kids that no we're not going to play Minecraft today, we're going to make Minecraft you can inspire a lifelong love of programming.

Sometimes you just got to strap yourself in and embrace the the terminal. If you're too afraid to try you'll never learn. Once around the same time I actually fried a motherboard by not mounting it properly, a nice computer repair shop owner gave me a bunch of motherboard spacers for free and told me to never Mount the motherboard directly to the case again.

I actually love programming in that it's one of the last Fields where you can teach yourself how to do amazing things for free. Sure if you need to deploy things you might need to spend two or three bucks a month on AWS, but even then you can get so much done locally.

Re: Endless Operating System

#12

Post by jordache »

offtop5 wrote: post #11
jordache wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

think about barrier of entry. Your anecdotal life story of overcoming early challenges with linux, that benefited your subsequent career is likely not scalable to the entire human population. I think any reasonable person will align with the notion that low barrier of entry, coupled with an engaging curriculum to grow their level of computing expertise, will net much greater success.

But why not. The worst thing that happens is maybe a teacher needs to reflash the OS, if you tell kids that no we're not going to play Minecraft today, we're going to make Minecraft you can inspire a lifelong love of programming. Sometimes you just got to strap yourself in and embrace the the terminal. If you're too afraid to try you'll never learn. Once around the same time I actually fried a motherboard by not moun…

You need a carrot at the end of the stick.

Ramp up the complexity, with appropriate award system, to help with engagement.

Your retroactive approach is saying - gosh, if I had my present day wisdom when I was I kid, then imagine all tactical things I can learn like apt or vim. I'm saying that is not a sustainable approach given a dataset that is the human population.

Re: Endless Operating System

#13

Post by grawprog »

offtop5 wrote: post #6

Actually I think students need to learn to use apt. I swear, the entire reason I got comfortable with the command line is because when I was 16 I couldn't afford a Windows license, and I ordered a free Ubuntu CD. I'm still very good with the terminal and it serves me well in my six-figure career

I've never really understood why command lines are so intimidating for people. Especially in today's world where you can search up whatever commands you need fairly effortlessly through the power of the internet. A large majority of simple command line use cases tend to be

$Command, $options $input file/directory $output file/directory

That shouldn't be overly complicated for honestly most people with literacy who are capable of functioning in modern society.

Re: Endless Operating System

#14

Post by geocrasher »

marcodiego wrote: post #7
geocrasher wrote: post #5

"useful resources for students and families" "and even works without internet access." "free for individuals and non-commercial use up to 500 computers" I'm confused- who are they targeting? At endlessos.org, I found this: "We're not changing the way technology works... we are working to make it better. We develop our tools to meet the needs of real users with diverse technical challenges to work with. We design them…

AFAIK they are aiming the educational market. With some emphasis on developing countries and non-connected schools. The OS, for example, comes "with over 50,000 Wikipedia articles".

I did see that too- but if that's the case, why not just explicitly say so instead of all the vaguespeak.

Re: Endless Operating System

#15

Post by offtop5 »

grawprog wrote: post #13
offtop5 wrote: post #6

Actually I think students need to learn to use apt. I swear, the entire reason I got comfortable with the command line is because when I was 16 I couldn't afford a Windows license, and I ordered a free Ubuntu CD. I'm still very good with the terminal and it serves me well in my six-figure career

I've never really understood why command lines are so intimidating for people. Especially in today's world where you can search up whatever commands you need fairly effortlessly through the power of the internet. A large majority of simple command line use cases tend to be $Command, $options $input file/directory $output file/directory That shouldn't be overly complicated for honestly most people with literacy who ar…

And plus apt get install or whatever your distro is equivalent is is infinitely easier than searching the internet to try and find what you want. I reckon a kid who can install apps on Ubuntu and troubleshoot basic issues can probably get a tech support job right out of high school if they put a good effort in.

Re: Endless Operating System

#16

Post by bandyaboot »

offtop5 wrote: post #6

Actually I think students need to learn to use apt. I swear, the entire reason I got comfortable with the command line is because when I was 16 I couldn't afford a Windows license, and I ordered a free Ubuntu CD. I'm still very good with the terminal and it serves me well in my six-figure career

But why is learning to use apt the correct layer of abstraction? Could you not just as easily say kids shouldn’t use apt—they need to learn to build from source?

Re: Endless Operating System

#17

Post by cyberbanjo »

bandyaboot wrote: post #16
offtop5 wrote: post #6

Actually I think students need to learn to use apt. I swear, the entire reason I got comfortable with the command line is because when I was 16 I couldn't afford a Windows license, and I ordered a free Ubuntu CD. I'm still very good with the terminal and it serves me well in my six-figure career

But why is learning to use apt the correct layer of abstraction? Could you not just as easily say kids shouldn’t use apt—they need to learn to build from source?

It's a gateway drug, I successfully installed with apt, then with make, then moved to live in the CLI.

Re: Endless Operating System

#18

Post by jolux »

grawprog wrote: post #13
offtop5 wrote: post #6

Actually I think students need to learn to use apt. I swear, the entire reason I got comfortable with the command line is because when I was 16 I couldn't afford a Windows license, and I ordered a free Ubuntu CD. I'm still very good with the terminal and it serves me well in my six-figure career

I've never really understood why command lines are so intimidating for people. Especially in today's world where you can search up whatever commands you need fairly effortlessly through the power of the internet. A large majority of simple command line use cases tend to be $Command, $options $input file/directory $output file/directory That shouldn't be overly complicated for honestly most people with literacy who ar…

>I've never really understood why command lines are so intimidating for people.

Really? The most popular computing device of our time is the smartphone, and you don't understand why people find command lines intimidating?

Command lines are unforgiving, frequently obscure, and will let you delete files and break things without blinking. There's plenty to be intimidated by for people who have no need to learn the skills.

Re: Endless Operating System

#19

Post by eightysixfour »

grawprog wrote: post #13
offtop5 wrote: post #6

Actually I think students need to learn to use apt. I swear, the entire reason I got comfortable with the command line is because when I was 16 I couldn't afford a Windows license, and I ordered a free Ubuntu CD. I'm still very good with the terminal and it serves me well in my six-figure career

I've never really understood why command lines are so intimidating for people. Especially in today's world where you can search up whatever commands you need fairly effortlessly through the power of the internet. A large majority of simple command line use cases tend to be $Command, $options $input file/directory $output file/directory That shouldn't be overly complicated for honestly most people with literacy who ar…

There's a ton of reasons people are afraid of CLIs, here's a few:

1. Graphical UIs are inherently more discoverable. There's no way around this and "googling it" isn't a good enough answer.

2. Graphical UIs, for better and worse, hide or limit you from doing things that will break. Those guardrails reduce the fear associated with exploration. There are guardrails on CLIs as well (sudo), but we take for granted what those are and how they work.

3. You overestimate the level of skills required to function in modern society.

Re: Endless Operating System

#20

Post by carlosf »

jolux wrote: post #18
grawprog wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never really understood why command lines are so intimidating for people. Especially in today's world where you can search up whatever commands you need fairly effortlessly through the power of the internet. A large majority of simple command line use cases tend to be $Command, $options $input file/directory $output file/directory That shouldn't be overly complicated for honestly most people with literacy who ar…

>I've never really understood why command lines are so intimidating for people. Really? The most popular computing device of our time is the smartphone, and you don't understand why people find command lines intimidating? Command lines are unforgiving, frequently obscure, and will let you delete files and break things without blinking. There's plenty to be intimidated by for people who have no need to learn the skill…

Just a thought: that is more related to security models than to GUI vs CLI.

In Windows you can delete and break things if you're a local admin. Warning messages got better, but using a PC also used to be intimidating.

Smartphones on the other hand lock all apps by default, which is way better to novices.

I believe CLIs might be made friendlier with the correct segregation / security model.

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