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How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?

permaculture.co.uk

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Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?

#11

Post by thatcat »

coderintherye wrote: post #10
thatcat wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, you're welcome. I'm watching it rn, he def knows what he's talking about. I just disagree about the deep organic matter being beneficial, obviously don't use rotting compost as your source in a non porous soil though. I started a company that fractures soil and injects organic matter deep, filling fractures to create drainage and sequester carbon, we use biochar - it has a sandy texture and doesn't break down ve…

Is it beneficial in anyway to use wood that burned in wildfires (very hot fires that burned most trees and shrubs down through the roots, but also left a lot of nearly fully burned trees and shrubs above ground) as part of the mix or is only pyrolyzed material useful?

That left over bit is technically also pyrolyzed material because very hot fires create anaerobic conditions. Integrating it into the soil seems like a good idea.

Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?

#12

Post by thomasfromcdnjs »

thatcat wrote: post #9
thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh that's such a cool company. I only recently got put onto Terra preta through my personal favorite gardener -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTaWiO5Eso (he's funny lol) I'm going to try make my own ad hoc terra preta plots for fun too. Are you able to share any more information on your company? Who is actually buying this service? I feel like biochar is going to hit the main stream this year or next. Going to ma…

That's awesome! The tea thing is a good idea. No one is buying it yet, but the plan is to have some micro rain gardens installed this spring using the tech to reduce the overall area required due to the increased drainage depth and moisture storage. It's essentially an erosion control measure until there is a carbon market and we increase automation. We will also be doing some testing with trees - remediating poor dr…

Never heard of micro rain gardens, googled them, also a good idea for some places in my garden.

And yeah seems like an awful lot of work aha

I'd imagine just getting a bull dozer or something, digging a whole lot of deep rows.

Then putting a sign in my neighbour for everyone to just come dump everything in the ditches, throw some wood on, light it up and repeat several times.

I saw that they are attempting synthetic stuff too which I might research later.

Some useful tips in this Reddit thread -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Permaculture/comments/1558h7/terra_...

Bamboo sounds like something worth investigating.

Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?

#13

Post by jspash »

I'm curious what HN thinks about the current trend of root washing when planting trees. From what I've read the science is still out and people tend to be split 50/50.

The root washers say that by removing all media that the sapling was grown in will give the roots more "incentive" to move into the native soil and thus it will establish quicker.

Whereas the anti-washers say you are slowing the establishment by washing away the helpful microbes as described in the article.

Then there are the people who say, DO wash the roots, but save the water. Plant the tree bare-root, but fill the hole with 50% of the saved water, and use the rest to top-water over the next few weeks. The idea is to get the benefits of bare-root planting along with saving the beneficial organisms.

The reason I ask is that my yearly tree just arrived in the post and I've yet to put it in the ground. I'd love to know what the current thinking is.

Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?

#14

Post by speexmex »

jspash wrote: post #13

I'm curious what HN thinks about the current trend of root washing when planting trees. From what I've read the science is still out and people tend to be split 50/50. The root washers say that by removing all media that the sapling was grown in will give the roots more "incentive" to move into the native soil and thus it will establish quicker. Whereas the anti-washers say you are slowing the establishment by washin…

Just wash half the roots?

Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?

#15

Post by jarmitage »

thatcat wrote: post #9
thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh that's such a cool company. I only recently got put onto Terra preta through my personal favorite gardener -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTaWiO5Eso (he's funny lol) I'm going to try make my own ad hoc terra preta plots for fun too. Are you able to share any more information on your company? Who is actually buying this service? I feel like biochar is going to hit the main stream this year or next. Going to ma…

That's awesome! The tea thing is a good idea. No one is buying it yet, but the plan is to have some micro rain gardens installed this spring using the tech to reduce the overall area required due to the increased drainage depth and moisture storage. It's essentially an erosion control measure until there is a carbon market and we increase automation. We will also be doing some testing with trees - remediating poor dr…

If you don’t mind me asking, what is/was your educational/career route that led you to the knowledge that you currently have? It seems interestingly diverse, like you have biology, agriculture, but also some mechanical?

Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?

#16

Post by markdown »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #2

I've been doing quite a lot of gardening in the past 3 years. There is a plethora of home gardeners and/or permaculture resources on the internet that generally like as much organic matter as possible. I some of that strategy as it's convenient at home to supply nutrients to plants without much work. But, I can't help but feel it's all sort of wish washy science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHZHy3_7PPE ^ I found…

> In short, plant roots actually love sand, silt and clay, and actually don't like organic matter around their roots as it causes rot.

IMO it really depends on what you're trying to grow. I live in the tropics and there are a lot of tropical plants that do indeed thrive when the soil is heavy on the organic matter. I suspect it depends on how far/long these tropical plants have been bred away from their rainforest origins.

Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?

#17

Post by thomasfromcdnjs »

markdown wrote: post #16
thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #2

I've been doing quite a lot of gardening in the past 3 years. There is a plethora of home gardeners and/or permaculture resources on the internet that generally like as much organic matter as possible. I some of that strategy as it's convenient at home to supply nutrients to plants without much work. But, I can't help but feel it's all sort of wish washy science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHZHy3_7PPE ^ I found…

> In short, plant roots actually love sand, silt and clay, and actually don't like organic matter around their roots as it causes rot. IMO it really depends on what you're trying to grow. I live in the tropics and there are a lot of tropical plants that do indeed thrive when the soil is heavy on the organic matter. I suspect it depends on how far/long these tropical plants have been bred away from their rainforest or…

Yeah, I think your absolutely correct.

Gardening is actually quite hard in this regard. Everyone is always sharing tips and tricks, for different crops, different species of said crops, different climates, different soils, different hemispheres, different sides of a mountain etc

I think there will be a cool database where you can filter by those factors one day but not sure we are quite there just yet.

Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?

#18

Post by thomasfromcdnjs »

jspash wrote: post #13

I'm curious what HN thinks about the current trend of root washing when planting trees. From what I've read the science is still out and people tend to be split 50/50. The root washers say that by removing all media that the sapling was grown in will give the roots more "incentive" to move into the native soil and thus it will establish quicker. Whereas the anti-washers say you are slowing the establishment by washin…

Haven't transplanted many trees at all, and there are probably a million factors.

A little rule I follow is;

If the plant already looks quite unhealthy, I prefer to just put it as is straight into the ground, feed it and water it. It will take longer to recover but I believe it minimises the risk of outright killing it.

If I get a very healthy plant, I will play around with it more, slice its roots, rinse it out, make a soil mix for the new roots etc

This is completely speculative but the best results I've had so far.

Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?

#19

Post by bjelkeman-again »

In aquaponic systems, which have plenty of bacteria on the roots, we are running much lower levels of nutrients with very good growth, compared to recommended hydroponic nutrient levels. I think we are observing this interaction that is described here.

Re: How do plants extract nutrients from the ground?

#20

Post by MetallicCloud »

jspash wrote: post #13

I'm curious what HN thinks about the current trend of root washing when planting trees. From what I've read the science is still out and people tend to be split 50/50. The root washers say that by removing all media that the sapling was grown in will give the roots more "incentive" to move into the native soil and thus it will establish quicker. Whereas the anti-washers say you are slowing the establishment by washin…

I'm not a gardener at all, but it shouldn't be hard to figure out, should it?

Get like 9 of the same plants at the same point in the life cycle, wash 3, leave 3 and do the 50\50 for 3. Compare results.

If it's as big a deal as people make it out to be, it should be obvious, no?

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