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Early-Retirement Update

livingafi.com

11–20 of 443 posts

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#11
This was a really refreshing and honest take on early retirement, especially among the FI blogosphere.

> I looked at other FI bloggers who quit work and retired. They all appeared to be blissful. Stoic. Confident and without reservations. Since I ran into problems myself, I started to feel like I was defective. Like something was wrong with me and that’s why it didn’t work so well. Maybe it has to do with my personality (a nerdy introvert). Or it could be because I’m not trying to sell product and make money off of my choices, like almost everyone else who blogs about FI seems to.

There always seemed like a potentially strange conflict of interest with many of the FI bloggers who are ostensibly "retired early", but still earn a significant amount of money from their FI blogs. Which isn't to say they shouldn't be earning that money, but it does bring up questions about some of the conclusions that they make. (There's also a bit of a groupthink or even cult-like mentality among some of them, particularly in the MMM sphere.)

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#12
post #9

I always get a kick out of people who think they’re financially independent with such a small stash. Outside some regions with relatively extreme living conditions (e.g. undeveloped and underdeveloped countries), the amount he retired with was never going to be enough to sustain even minor shocks and last the rest of his life. He had a minor shock (breakup) and a major shock (health condition) and realized this error…

Especially not in the USA when the least of a health issue can eat up your savings in a couple of short months unless you have extremely good health coverage, which only the rich (who don't actually need it ...) have.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#13
To me the emphasis on the FIRE community should be on the FI part of the equation.

For many people in many countries, there is no concept of "retirement". It seems so silly to me that people would go and say "I'll work really hard and do all this stuff for 40 years so I can sit around and do nothing for another 30 years".

What's the point? It's unsustainable. It's like doing a crash diet - it may work for a minute, but to have long-term results you need to have a lifestyle change.

Focusing on financial independence means you can achieve better long-term results. Living within your means over the course of 80 years instead of balls-to-the-wall for 30-40 and then a quick and silent death for 30 seems to be a better course of action and would lead to longer lifespan.

Once you reach financial independence - whatever that means to you - you can take on other interests. It could be working at a startup, or a non-profit, or volunteering, or gardening. You name it. But financial independence enables such things. FI > RE.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#14

This was a really refreshing and honest take on early retirement, especially among the FI blogosphere. > I looked at other FI bloggers who quit work and retired. They all appeared to be blissful. Stoic. Confident and without reservations. Since I ran into problems myself, I started to feel like I was defective. Like something was wrong with me and that’s why it didn’t work so well. Maybe it has to do with my personal…

But: he's still giving investment advice and he still doesn't realize just how lucky he got.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#16
One of the things that struck me is that the need for new hardwood floors. I've been there, and I think this is a phase where you have to do something stupid with a lot of money to realize how stupid it is.

For instance, I spent $7K on new quartz counter-tops, $5K on a new fireplace insert which I would rarely use, and then $70K on a bathroom that I never used. Now, I've come to the conclusion that perfect doesn't really exist and just to enjoy what you have. We went from home owners to renters.

All the external things that money buys tend to not provide lasting happiness, and there you are stuck with yourself. We all die.

I have a lot of thoughts on this piece as I'm in the FI camp, but not yet RE camp. The only reason I don't join RE right now is because I want to try to leverage my position to do something really big. However, I'll probably fail, and I'll retire and do my own thing.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#18
post #3

I "retired" for a month, first two weeks I was so bored just exercising and consuming content, then got kind of depressed, and wound up making plans to start a new business. Then I took a new role at a startup and went back to the grind. I came to the conclusion I just can't stop working. If it isn't for a company then I'd probably start a non-profit and build a new thing that is more idealistic. My dad was the same…

I depend on work for income, but also get some social activity and a steady stream of "interesting-enough" problems to solve.

If the need for income goes away I still need to replace the other two.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#19
post #9

I always get a kick out of people who think they’re financially independent with such a small stash. Outside some regions with relatively extreme living conditions (e.g. undeveloped and underdeveloped countries), the amount he retired with was never going to be enough to sustain even minor shocks and last the rest of his life. He had a minor shock (breakup) and a major shock (health condition) and realized this error…

I used to work in financial services. I wasn't client-facing but because I had experience with financial modelling so I got roped into these discussions...in my experience, everyone gets this wrong. Advisers get it less wrong but I have still seen comical errors from people who should know better.

But most people significantly overstate future returns (particularly now), they significantly understate the effect that volatility can have on strategies with withdrawal rates (any strategy involving withdrawals has to optimise for returns AND volatility...this is counter to the "time in the market" logic that most people read so can end up going very wrong), and they model for average final period wealth rather than 5th percentile (generally speaking, this happens everywhere in finance...modelling percentile outcomes is tricky...so most people just don't do it). I am not in the US but health costs seem to be an issue, inflation is another "black swan" that tends to go unconsidered.

In my experience, the FIRE group are the most difficult to convince because the whole concept is a lifestyle or way of thinking not an actual strategy. I also don't understand what is so appealing about doing nothing...but that is maybe just me (I have had times in my life when I was doing nothing, those weren't choices and they weren't fun).

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#20
My take-away is that what really matters is not financial independence (it's nonetheless really nice), but independence. And the real independence comes from continued ability to work, being able to choose the job that one enjoys, and the freedom of choosing how to spend one's time. Freedom of choosing how to spend one's time is probably the hardest to achieve.
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