Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#11

Post by optimalsolver » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

optimalsolver wrote: post #5

It shouldn't be overlooked that we tend to romanticize the dying process, probably for our own mental health. Your last words likely won't be wise, witty, or even coherent. A good account from a medical professional on what the end stage of life actually looks like can be found here: https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay... I was particularly struck by the following comment from one of the read…

Also recommend this article on the kinds of things people actually say on their deathbeds:

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/01/how-do-pe...

It usually doesn't make any kind of discernable sense.

Probably the saddest example:

>They quote a 17-year-old, dying of cancer, distraught because she can’t find the map. “If I could find the map, I could go home! Where’s the map? I want to go home!”

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#12

Post by viro » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #3

ampdepolymerase wrote: post #2

As usual, immortality is the solution.

Now you have infinite years of problems... (to paraphraze JWZ)

but a bitch ain't one.... sorry I had to, I'll take my downvotes.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#13

Post by phkahler » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #6

Eh, as someone with a degree in philosophy, it’s this sort of overanalysis that has led to the field’s sidelining. The so-called folk wisdom stated by the dying might not be logically rigorous, but it’s a perspective that we would do well to remember. Being trite or simple doesn’t make something wrong. My own personal theory is that the deathbed perspective is quite similar to the childhood one: without the constrain…

What about this. Ask a person right now, what would they do if the knew they only had a week to live. Or if they had plenty of money and no obligations. This seems to help getting at parts of life they are neglecting. But not everyone is good at hypotheticals. Maybe that's why we put more weight on the deathbed words - the situation is very real?

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#14

Post by watt » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

optimalsolver wrote: post #5

It shouldn't be overlooked that we tend to romanticize the dying process, probably for our own mental health. Your last words likely won't be wise, witty, or even coherent. A good account from a medical professional on what the end stage of life actually looks like can be found here: https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay... I was particularly struck by the following comment from one of the read…

The comment is about somebody way past their last words: they would have died a long time ago, if not for this artificial prolongation of chemical process called life.

If people are allowed to die, they will have last words, and will then die when their body on its own is not able to sustain process of life.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#15

Post by Cthulhu_ » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #4

For a: - "I should have done X" (regret because X wasn't followed) there are probably as many: - "I should not have done X" (regret because X was followed and made things shit) Even the "should not have worked as hard" would be most likely balanced with others saying: "should not have been as slack or loose at work, and did something important, made some legacy" In the end, nothing really matters, and the perspective…

I am more and more getting irked by the "should not have worked so hard" crowd, or to be more precise, the ones that go "just quit and go backpacking". Great if you're young, wealthy and have a good social safety net (read: rich parents), not so much for the other 99% of the population.

I tried it once, going out of my comfort zone to do the backpacking thing, but it just wasn't for me. I'm not very social, have trouble entertaining myself, and end up spending a ton of money on food, drink and entertainment just to not be alone with my thoughts too much.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#16

Post by Iv » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #6

Eh, as someone with a degree in philosophy, it’s this sort of overanalysis that has led to the field’s sidelining. The so-called folk wisdom stated by the dying might not be logically rigorous, but it’s a perspective that we would do well to remember. Being trite or simple doesn’t make something wrong. My own personal theory is that the deathbed perspective is quite similar to the childhood one: without the constrain…

Deathbeds are where people have maximum experience and low incentive to lie. Nothing magical. Louis XIV saying "I loved war too much" on his deathbed gives a perspective to his life achievements.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#17

Post by christophergs » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

This article makes me think about Kahneman's research into our two selves: remembered and experienced. Quick quote from relevant paper: "consider a music lover who listens raptly to a long symphony on a disk that is scratched near the end, producing a shocking sound. Such incidents are often described by the statement that the bad ending 'ruined the whole experience'. But, in fact, the experience was not ruined, only the memory of it."[1]

[1] https://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_expe...

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#18

Post by keiferski » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #13

keiferski wrote: post #6

Eh, as someone with a degree in philosophy, it’s this sort of overanalysis that has led to the field’s sidelining. The so-called folk wisdom stated by the dying might not be logically rigorous, but it’s a perspective that we would do well to remember. Being trite or simple doesn’t make something wrong. My own personal theory is that the deathbed perspective is quite similar to the childhood one: without the constrain…

What about this. Ask a person right now, what would they do if the knew they only had a week to live. Or if they had plenty of money and no obligations. This seems to help getting at parts of life they are neglecting. But not everyone is good at hypotheticals. Maybe that's why we put more weight on the deathbed words - the situation is very real?

Yeah, that’s a good point too. We all live in a mental projection of the future, where we have essentially endless time ahead of us. People without the luxury of that illusion usually have insightful things to say.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#19

Post by nyokodo » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

ampdepolymerase wrote: post #2

As usual, immortality is the solution.

> As usual, immortality is the solution.

I’m not sure if you’re joking or not but many people are not when they say this.

Immortality is impossible in this universe given known physics. The use of the word is at best equivocation and a rather desperate self-delusion. Even if we ignore physics the probability of dying by murder or suicide trend towards 1. All of us are contingent and will eventually face our death.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#20

Post by magicalhippo » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

optimalsolver wrote: post #5

It shouldn't be overlooked that we tend to romanticize the dying process, probably for our own mental health. Your last words likely won't be wise, witty, or even coherent. A good account from a medical professional on what the end stage of life actually looks like can be found here: https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay... I was particularly struck by the following comment from one of the read…

> Your last words likely won't be wise, witty, or even coherent.

I don't remember the last words my dad said before he passed. We had some irrelevant chitchat about my daily life, and I got him something to drink or similar.

But as I left that evening and we said good night, he reached out and we shook hands, something we almost never did.

And in that moment, the few seconds as we shook hands in silence and just looked at each other, I felt a deep, profound connection. All of me could feel that he was saying his final goodbye, and I thanked him in silence.

He passed away the next morning before I got back. He'd told the nurse and doctor he didn't want more oxygen, which they honored, and after a short while he slept for good.

So in a way I never got to have a final word with him. But I'm very glad we got to say goodbye.