Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#11

Post by robotmay » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 11:51 PM UTC

fggg444 wrote: post #3

I'm not sure if the author is correct. I have this setting enabled. My iPhone died, it's my only apple device. Apple replaced it, I logged into iCloud on the new phone and all my Messages restored (along with everything else, it was like my old phone). How is that not a backup?

That's part of the sync step. Basically it stores the "current" state and will mirror that to all devices.

I would class a backup differently. Say someone grabs your phone and deletes your conversations (or you accidentally swipe the wrong way). How do you get those back? Because the sync service immediately removes them from all devices with no way to roll that back.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#12

Post by jdmg94 » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 11:52 PM UTC

fggg444 wrote: post #3

I'm not sure if the author is correct. I have this setting enabled. My iPhone died, it's my only apple device. Apple replaced it, I logged into iCloud on the new phone and all my Messages restored (along with everything else, it was like my old phone). How is that not a backup?

The author is ranting that he doesn’t know how 2-way syncing works, I for once would be pissed if I deleted a message on my iPhone and its still on my iPad/macbook. You’ve made a conscious decision to delete your messages and know you blame the manufacturer because you changed your mind? Its a ridiculous premise

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#13

Post by capableweb » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 11:52 PM UTC

joecool1029 wrote: post #7

>If you delete a message, it's deleted from all your devices immediately, and it's gone forever. Delete an entire conversation? Gone forever. This is expected behavior on 2-way sync. Presumably backups made before the message was deleted will still have the message but will delete it out once network connectivity is restored.

If you're an engineer and you know the implications of a "2-way sync" then yes. But most people using iPhone are not, so what happens when something is on/off has to be extremely clear and intuitive.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#14

Post by capableweb » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 11:53 PM UTC

jdmg94 wrote: post #12

fggg444 wrote: post #3

I'm not sure if the author is correct. I have this setting enabled. My iPhone died, it's my only apple device. Apple replaced it, I logged into iCloud on the new phone and all my Messages restored (along with everything else, it was like my old phone). How is that not a backup?

The author is ranting that he doesn’t know how 2-way syncing works, I for once would be pissed if I deleted a message on my iPhone and its still on my iPad/macbook. You’ve made a conscious decision to delete your messages and know you blame the manufacturer because you changed your mind? Its a ridiculous premise

I think the authors point is that iCloud is many things. It's for backups AND for 2-way sync, and when you have what activated, and their connection, is not absolutely clear for the average user.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#15

Post by idolaspecus » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 11:54 PM UTC

> iMessage combines text messages and its own messaging system in a more-or-less opaque way to the end user

I don't really know what to say about it, but I just wanted to point out how we use both "opaque" and "transparent" in the way the author uses "opaque" here. I know this isn't unique (i.e. "I'm up for X" or "I'm down for X") but this particular instance is, for me and by far, the most confusing.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#16

Post by draw_down » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 11:55 PM UTC

They can have panels with bad UX and still be better than most everyone else.

In fact that's really the point- not that Apple is perfect, but that the general state of things is so abysmal in comparison.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#17

Post by robotmay » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 11:56 PM UTC

jdmg94 wrote: post #12

fggg444 wrote: post #3

I'm not sure if the author is correct. I have this setting enabled. My iPhone died, it's my only apple device. Apple replaced it, I logged into iCloud on the new phone and all my Messages restored (along with everything else, it was like my old phone). How is that not a backup?

The author is ranting that he doesn’t know how 2-way syncing works, I for once would be pissed if I deleted a message on my iPhone and its still on my iPad/macbook. You’ve made a conscious decision to delete your messages and know you blame the manufacturer because you changed your mind? Its a ridiculous premise

You delete an entire conversation in iMessage by swiping to the left and then tapping a button on the left, FYI. Which is easily fumbleable, or possible to trigger with a wet screen, and is what happened to my girlfriend.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#18

Post by robotmay » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 11:58 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #14

jdmg94 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is ranting that he doesn’t know how 2-way syncing works, I for once would be pissed if I deleted a message on my iPhone and its still on my iPad/macbook. You’ve made a conscious decision to delete your messages and know you blame the manufacturer because you changed your mind? Its a ridiculous premise

I think the authors point is that iCloud is many things. It's for backups AND for 2-way sync, and when you have what activated, and their connection, is not absolutely clear for the average user.

Yeah this is the issue. Is it a backup or is it sync? It's not like "left for backups, right for sync", it's just on or off for "iCloud". Which isn't even consistent across apps.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#19

Post by joecool1029 » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 11:58 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #13

joecool1029 wrote: post #7

>If you delete a message, it's deleted from all your devices immediately, and it's gone forever. Delete an entire conversation? Gone forever. This is expected behavior on 2-way sync. Presumably backups made before the message was deleted will still have the message but will delete it out once network connectivity is restored.

If you're an engineer and you know the implications of a "2-way sync" then yes. But most people using iPhone are not, so what happens when something is on/off has to be extremely clear and intuitive.

I'm not an engineer, but I've used computers often enough that I understand deleting synced folders deletes files in both locations (dropbox, onedrive, etc).

> I'm resolving that for the future by swapping her to an Android phone where I can manage backups myself as I do for my own (a combination of Syncthing, ZFS, and off-site backups for me).

So, rather than learn the implications of the setting and take the L in a way that his gf could manage after she dumps him, our very smart author is going to double-down and manage her backups.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#20

Post by lelandbatey » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 12:06 AM UTC

pb7 wrote: post #6

capableweb wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh but there is more, a lot more. I've mostly been a Android owner but some years ago I got an iPhone instead. The glaring UX issues everywhere are hard to ignore. I just started documenting everyday, so I can share it in the future. But there is definitely more than just one issue with Apples UX and UI.

Care to share even 1 or 2 of the most egregious off the top of your head? Edit: Thanks all. I have to disagree that "Apple's no better than anyone else when it comes to UX" -- I think they are better but also make a lot of annoying mistakes. UX is hard, doubly so when you have such popular devices that try to cater towards so many different groups (children, techies, common folks, older non-tech savvy, etc). No one m…

Not who asked, but as someone who bought an iPad I can share at least some which completely threw me for a loop.

How do I search through all the apps on my iPad? I want to see a list, or have a text field where I can type, how do I get one to show up? I try swiping down from the top edge, that gives me a "lock screen". Swipe down from the top right corner, that gives me a _different_ status and widget screen than the one that I get swiping down from the top edge anywhere else. I swipe from the left to the right, I get yet ANOTHER set of widgets I don't care about. Swipe from the right to the left and I start moving through the randomly organized pages of apps.

No, to be able to search for an app, I have to know that if I put my finger in the center of the home screen, right on top of all the app icons which normally I tap to enter said apps, and then swipe down from that position, A FULL PAGE SEARCH BOX MATERIALIZES FROM NOWHERE AND PULLS FOCUS FROM EVERYTHING ELSE?! How the hell am I supposed to "just know this"?

I do like my iPad, but it is full of these kinds of "how am I supposed to know that that works that way?" moments. I got an iPad for my older, less technically focused mother, and I really got the brunt of it then. Text and buttons are indistinguishable in the flat paradigm; you can't increase the size of things like the text that is used to label the apps on the home screen just below their icons (or at least, I couldn't figure it out after much searching); the contrast of UI elements is waaaay too low and many don't respond to accessibility options, meaning things like area dividers are hard to see and thus can't guide the user; dividing up UI elements like the bottom-of-the-screen bar in Apple Podcasts ends up being confusing (is this a part of the "overall app" UI, or is what's on the screen now merely a part of this single view-pane?); apps are always playing "where's the back button" because there is no dedicated "back" button like on Android, so sometimes the back button is in the top left corner, sometimes it's in a different corner because I'm in a sub-view, sometimes it's not there because I need to swipe this menu away, but no matter what, it's never near where my hand always is: the bottom right of the device, so it's always a chore to go "back".

I could go on. What I mean to say is that I strongly agree with author when they say "Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX"; I'm sure if I got used to it I'd be fine with all of this, just as I and my older mother are "fine-ish" with Android because it's what we're used to. But make no mistake:

> Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX