Linus and Pull Requests (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: Linus and Pull Requests (2012)

#11

Post by andrewzah » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 4:03 AM UTC

phist_mcgee wrote: post #6

fermienrico wrote: post #3

Curious - why do people get offended by Torvalds? If you know anything about the guy, his rants are a caricature. It's like going for a Tarantino movie and expecting no violence. You're going to get violence. And, it's going to be excessive, over-the-top, ridiculously offensive that there is no other explanation than to treat it as comedy. Any other attempt to explain Linus is flapping wings in a vaccuum. If I was on…

But what purpose does that antagonism serve? I fundamentally reject the way linus treats people, and I think him hiding behind his maintainer position is even more petty. A lord of his kingdom, rude and sarcastic to everyone who comes and visits. I will never accept someone as hostile as he is in my workplace, and I think the only way he gets away with it, is by surrounding himself with other people who express thems…

Reminder that Linus is part of the reason you and I have a job in the first place.

How many people contribute to the linux kernel? Let’s see how quickly you get jaded after dealing with people refusing to read basic instructions.

Also, reminder that not every contributor is desirable. Linus has a specific vision and criteria for his project. It’s true he could use kinder language, but I imagine he gets fed up having to deal with this sort of stuff over -decades-.

Re: Linus and Pull Requests (2012)

#12

Post by meowface » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 4:05 AM UTC

cobraetor wrote: post #8

fermienrico wrote: post #3

Curious - why do people get offended by Torvalds? If you know anything about the guy, his rants are a caricature. It's like going for a Tarantino movie and expecting no violence. You're going to get violence. And, it's going to be excessive, over-the-top, ridiculously offensive that there is no other explanation than to treat it as comedy. Any other attempt to explain Linus is flapping wings in a vaccuum. If I was on…

> Curious - why do people get offended by Torvalds? Same reason why people get offended by replacing Git branch "master" to "main" or "blacklist" to "blocklist". No reasonable person particularly enjoys the increasing denigration of meritocracy and infiltration of woke neoracism into their sphere. https://newdiscourses.com/

Did you really have to shoehorn all that into a discussion about Torvalds's notoriously heated communication style and advertise some random left-criticism blog to boot?

Re: Linus and Pull Requests (2012)

#13

Post by ben0x539 » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 4:07 AM UTC

I'm a bit amused that Torvalds is complaining about people submitting non-line-wrapped commit messages even though they look awful when displayed by git because they use a different tool to author them, while submitting line-wrapped comments even though they look awful on the github web interface with proportional fonts because he submits them by email. But of course, it's his repo and he gets to apply whatever style suits him best.

Re: Linus and Pull Requests (2012)

#14

Post by bigyikes » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 4:07 AM UTC

dmart wrote: post #10

This was an interesting comment thread, and honestly you have to hand it to Linus for continuing to respond and expand on his viewpoints in a pretty level-headed way. Also, I was reading through it on a phone, which brought to light an interesting point regarding the hard line-wrapping discussion that occurs further on down the thread: when you hard-wrap your lines, you're also defining a minimum line width, under wh…

Was he level-headed? Talking like that at work might get me fired.

It would be better if he just ignored the PR instead of making a scene.

Maybe I’m just sensitive

Re: Linus and Pull Requests (2012)

#15

Post by danielsht » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 4:09 AM UTC

Reasonable people can disagree on things like formatting, features, or the superiority of one interface/product over another... all fair game. And Linus’ contributions give him an enormous amount of credibility and leeway to have it his way. But when you treat people with such disrespect (ex. By calling them a moron), you lose all credibility and respect in my book. There should be no excuse for treating people with disrespect no matter who you are or what your contributions have been. I’m not surprised given his reputation, but I’m still incredibly disappointed

Re: Linus and Pull Requests (2012)

#16

Post by fermienrico » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 4:10 AM UTC

phist_mcgee wrote: post #6

fermienrico wrote: post #3

Curious - why do people get offended by Torvalds? If you know anything about the guy, his rants are a caricature. It's like going for a Tarantino movie and expecting no violence. You're going to get violence. And, it's going to be excessive, over-the-top, ridiculously offensive that there is no other explanation than to treat it as comedy. Any other attempt to explain Linus is flapping wings in a vaccuum. If I was on…

But what purpose does that antagonism serve? I fundamentally reject the way linus treats people, and I think him hiding behind his maintainer position is even more petty. A lord of his kingdom, rude and sarcastic to everyone who comes and visits. I will never accept someone as hostile as he is in my workplace, and I think the only way he gets away with it, is by surrounding himself with other people who express thems…

> But what purpose does that antagonism serve?

It's a good question. I am not advocating this behavior, just trying to circumvent his rants and see them as comedy.

Of course, the better choice is to not do this in the first place.

Re: Linus and Pull Requests (2012)

#17

Post by azhenley » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 4:11 AM UTC

Is this still true of GitHub's pull requests? Does Linus still not use them?

Re: Linus and Pull Requests (2012)

#18

Post by klyrs » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 4:13 AM UTC

Needs a (2012)? But why surface this 9-year-old drama? The whole thread is a nothingburger

Re: Linus and Pull Requests (2012)

#19

Post by alxmng » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 4:15 AM UTC

Hard line wraps are moronic, just like spaces for tabs.

It’s an abuse of the newline character, which is meant to represent a new line, not word wrapping. It also destroys the information of where actual newlines are placed. There’s no way to automatically strip out the newlines meant for word wrapping, while leaving newlines meant for new lines.

To use your words Linus: You’re a moron!

Re: Linus and Pull Requests (2012)

#20

Post by inimino » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 4:16 AM UTC

ivraatiems wrote: post #4

fermienrico wrote: post #3

Curious - why do people get offended by Torvalds? If you know anything about the guy, his rants are a caricature. It's like going for a Tarantino movie and expecting no violence. You're going to get violence. And, it's going to be excessive, over-the-top, ridiculously offensive that there is no other explanation than to treat it as comedy. Any other attempt to explain Linus is flapping wings in a vaccuum. If I was on…

No, this is like going to Quentin Tarantino and saying "hey Quentin, here's that work you need for your film, which I did for free," and him screaming at you for not doing your free work exactly how he wanted. Linus has often been a dick. Being offended at being abused for asking a question or doing a relatively normal thing is reasonable. (He's gotten better, recently, because even he acknowledges it's harmed the pr…

Nobody is doing free work for Linus. People including Linus are doing work on Linux which everyone is allowed to use for free. And which most people on Earth have benefitted from, directly or indirectly, to at least some extent.

Not getting paid for your work does not automatically entitle you to see your work used, or to ignore the standards put in place by those who would use it.

And yes, if everyone in Hollywood tried to contribute to every Tarantino movie, and showed up and didn't follow instructions, he'd probably yell at some folks too.