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Scientists break through the wall of sleep to the untapped world of dreams

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Re: Scientists break through the wall of sleep to the untapped world of dreams

#11

Post by hh3k0 »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #7
hh3k0 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a device with app which can reliably determine if you are in REM: https://dreem.com/ . I have sleep apnea and bought it in order to keep track of the quality of my sleep.

What do you do with the data? After knowing the quality, how do you improve it?

I can try to make lifestyle changes and see how it impacts my sleep, for example.

Additionally, I can also quite reliably see when my CPAP needs adjusting by my doctor.

The Dreem 2 has two functions I'm rather fond of:

1) It can wake you up in light sleep within a specific timeframe you've set. That made me less groggy and grumpy in the mornings.

2) It can generate pink noise which is said to enhance the quality of your deep sleep (there are a handful of studies about it).

Both features work well for me but I think the pink noise function is not available in the US for some FDA-related terminology reason.

Re: Scientists break through the wall of sleep to the untapped world of dreams

#12

Post by FooBarWidget »

frederikvs wrote: post #10
FooBarWidget wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't send a signal so I don't think it will help the poster. Tracking REM sleep seems to be fairly easy. My Xiaomi wristband seems to reliably detect when I go into REM, even though the device is very cheap.

Out of curiosity : how do you know it reliably detects it? I have a polar watch that also tracks my sleep and presents it in a nice plot. I have no way to check whether that plot is a good representation of my night, or whether they just randomly put in a few blocks and mark them as REM. I don't mean to imply that I don't trust the device or anything. I'm just saying I have no way to verify how reliable it really is.

Because every time I wake up after having a dream, I see it being properly registered. Conversely, if I wake up without having dreamt right before waking, then I see that the device didn't register REM.

Re: Scientists break through the wall of sleep to the untapped world of dreams

#13

Post by hh3k0 »

frederikvs wrote: post #10
FooBarWidget wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't send a signal so I don't think it will help the poster. Tracking REM sleep seems to be fairly easy. My Xiaomi wristband seems to reliably detect when I go into REM, even though the device is very cheap.

Out of curiosity : how do you know it reliably detects it? I have a polar watch that also tracks my sleep and presents it in a nice plot. I have no way to check whether that plot is a good representation of my night, or whether they just randomly put in a few blocks and mark them as REM. I don't mean to imply that I don't trust the device or anything. I'm just saying I have no way to verify how reliable it really is.

> I don't mean to imply that I don't trust the device or anything. I'm just saying I have no way to verify how reliable it really is.

Dreem 2, for example, has a few studies to back it up:

> The aim of this study was to assess the signal acquisition and the performance of the automatic sleep staging algorithms of a reduced-montage dry-electroencephalographic (EEG) device (Dreem headband, DH) compared to the gold-standard polysomnography (PSG) scored by five sleep experts.

And the relevant results:

> The algorithm achieved an overall accuracy comparable to human-level performance of 85.76% (N1: 56%, N2: 88%, N3: 85%, REM: 92%, and Wake: 85%).

https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/43/11/zsaa097/5841249

Re: Scientists break through the wall of sleep to the untapped world of dreams

#15

Post by sradman »

WalterGR wrote: post #3

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26203685 - Scientists Achieve Real-Time Communication with Lucid Dreamers in Breakthrough ( https://www.vice.com/en/article/4admym/scientists-achieve-re... ) 121 points | elsewhen | 3 days ago | 60 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26185603 - Real-time dialogue between experimenters and dreamers during REM sleep ( https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-982…

TL;DR: during lucid REM sleep, patients with extra EEG probes around the eye socket can make detectable left to right eye movements that can be repeated to communicate numerical values (e.g. 2) in response to verbal questions like “eight minus six”.

Re: Scientists break through the wall of sleep to the untapped world of dreams

#17

Post by MasterScrat »

sradman wrote: post #15
WalterGR wrote: post #3

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26203685 - Scientists Achieve Real-Time Communication with Lucid Dreamers in Breakthrough ( https://www.vice.com/en/article/4admym/scientists-achieve-re... ) 121 points | elsewhen | 3 days ago | 60 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26185603 - Real-time dialogue between experimenters and dreamers during REM sleep ( https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-982…

TL;DR: during lucid REM sleep, patients with extra EEG probes around the eye socket can make detectable left to right eye movements that can be repeated to communicate numerical values (e.g. 2) in response to verbal questions like “eight minus six”.

Note that the fact that you can communicate during LDs through eye movements has been known and used for decades already.

Re: Scientists break through the wall of sleep to the untapped world of dreams

#18

Post by WalterGR »

MasterScrat wrote: post #17
sradman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TL;DR: during lucid REM sleep, patients with extra EEG probes around the eye socket can make detectable left to right eye movements that can be repeated to communicate numerical values (e.g. 2) in response to verbal questions like “eight minus six”.

Note that the fact that you can communicate during LDs through eye movements has been known and used for decades already.

The dreamer has indeed been able to signal to instrumentation via eye movements during lucid dreaming for some time. Do you have any links about two-way communication being used for decades?
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