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The Shame of Swedish Education: J’Accuse

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Re: The Shame of Swedish Education: J’Accuse

#11

Post by brtkdotse »

leereeves wrote: post #9
brtkdotse wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a mathematical agenda, I can’t get the following to balance: Municipal: Money_for_education - cost_of_teachers - cost_of_buiding - misc_costs = 0 Private: Money_for_education - cost_of_teachers - cost_of_buiding - misc_costs - cost_of_marketing = profit

The author claims that "the corporation schools can reduce salaries, teacher density, resource staff." Though that claim makes me wonder how these schools attract students. The "independent students" and their parents must not be too happy with the municipal schools if understaffed private schools are an appealing alternative.

See ‘cost_of_marketing’.

Re: The Shame of Swedish Education: J’Accuse

#12

Post by UrsaMedius »

corty wrote: post #7

While I agree with the article about the problems of profit-driven schools, the whole situation (and the article in parts) points to a imho bigger problem in most education systems: Profit-driven schools cater to the more able, easier to educate and more intelligent pupils. Why can they do that? Because public schools almost everywhere insist on coeducation of the most and least gifted. This is severely holding back…

What you call "most and least gifted" is in my opinion better described as "most and least privileged". And coeducation of students of different levels of privilege just seems like a good thing, nothing that needs to be dealt with.

Re: The Shame of Swedish Education: J’Accuse

#13

Post by [deleted] »

UrsaMedius wrote: post #12
corty wrote: post #7

While I agree with the article about the problems of profit-driven schools, the whole situation (and the article in parts) points to a imho bigger problem in most education systems: Profit-driven schools cater to the more able, easier to educate and more intelligent pupils. Why can they do that? Because public schools almost everywhere insist on coeducation of the most and least gifted. This is severely holding back…

What you call "most and least gifted" is in my opinion better described as "most and least privileged". And coeducation of students of different levels of privilege just seems like a good thing, nothing that needs to be dealt with.

[deleted]

Re: The Shame of Swedish Education: J’Accuse

#14

Post by zelos »

brtkdotse wrote: post #5
techpression wrote: post #2

Most people with a non-political agenda would agree that the problems with the Swedish school system began when it was handed over to the municipalities from the state, I don’t think there has been a successful migration of responsibilities like this ever in the history of the country. We then had to suffer years of anti-scientific school regulations where student feelings and choice superseded traditional curriculum…

I have a mathematical agenda, I can’t get the following to balance: Municipal: Money_for_education - cost_of_teachers - cost_of_buiding - misc_costs = 0 Private: Money_for_education - cost_of_teachers - cost_of_buiding - misc_costs - cost_of_marketing = profit

I have no real view on public/private provision of services, but education is an area where I'm not sure how private 'efficiency savings' would exist. The bulk of the costs are salaries and the teacher/pupil ratio is roughly fixed for a given quality of education. Does anyone have experience of this? Are there actually areas that private enteprise can come in and save money in education?

Re: The Shame of Swedish Education: J’Accuse

#15

Post by HPsquared »

brtkdotse wrote: post #5
techpression wrote: post #2

Most people with a non-political agenda would agree that the problems with the Swedish school system began when it was handed over to the municipalities from the state, I don’t think there has been a successful migration of responsibilities like this ever in the history of the country. We then had to suffer years of anti-scientific school regulations where student feelings and choice superseded traditional curriculum…

I have a mathematical agenda, I can’t get the following to balance: Municipal: Money_for_education - cost_of_teachers - cost_of_buiding - misc_costs = 0 Private: Money_for_education - cost_of_teachers - cost_of_buiding - misc_costs - cost_of_marketing = profit

Your equation misses an 'efficiency' parameter.

Re: The Shame of Swedish Education: J’Accuse

#16

Post by leereeves »

brtkdotse wrote: post #11
leereeves wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author claims that "the corporation schools can reduce salaries, teacher density, resource staff." Though that claim makes me wonder how these schools attract students. The "independent students" and their parents must not be too happy with the municipal schools if understaffed private schools are an appealing alternative.

See ‘cost_of_marketing’.

If the marketing is misleading, couldn't students just go back to their old schools?

Re: The Shame of Swedish Education: J’Accuse

#17

Post by yoelo »

corty wrote: post #7

While I agree with the article about the problems of profit-driven schools, the whole situation (and the article in parts) points to a imho bigger problem in most education systems: Profit-driven schools cater to the more able, easier to educate and more intelligent pupils. Why can they do that? Because public schools almost everywhere insist on coeducation of the most and least gifted. This is severely holding back…

Profit-driven schools don't cater to gifted kids. They cater to kids with rich and highly educated parents. The goal is to do less, to extract more profit.

Re: The Shame of Swedish Education: J’Accuse

#18

Post by brtkdotse »

HPsquared wrote: post #15
brtkdotse wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a mathematical agenda, I can’t get the following to balance: Municipal: Money_for_education - cost_of_teachers - cost_of_buiding - misc_costs = 0 Private: Money_for_education - cost_of_teachers - cost_of_buiding - misc_costs - cost_of_marketing = profit

Your equation misses an 'efficiency' parameter.

Ah, yes, the fabled “efficiency” of private companies. Where would you have me put it? On teachers salaries? On building costs?

Re: The Shame of Swedish Education: J’Accuse

#19

Post by viceroyalbean »

UrsaMedius wrote: post #12
corty wrote: post #7

While I agree with the article about the problems of profit-driven schools, the whole situation (and the article in parts) points to a imho bigger problem in most education systems: Profit-driven schools cater to the more able, easier to educate and more intelligent pupils. Why can they do that? Because public schools almost everywhere insist on coeducation of the most and least gifted. This is severely holding back…

What you call "most and least gifted" is in my opinion better described as "most and least privileged". And coeducation of students of different levels of privilege just seems like a good thing, nothing that needs to be dealt with.

The issue, in my experience, is that you have to compromise somewhere. That means either leaving the higher performers to be bored, or leaving the lower performers not achieving the minimum. Neither seems like a desirable outcome.

Re: The Shame of Swedish Education: J’Accuse

#20

Post by twelvechairs »

corty wrote: post #7

While I agree with the article about the problems of profit-driven schools, the whole situation (and the article in parts) points to a imho bigger problem in most education systems: Profit-driven schools cater to the more able, easier to educate and more intelligent pupils. Why can they do that? Because public schools almost everywhere insist on coeducation of the most and least gifted. This is severely holding back…

Yes and no. Many aren't less 'gifted' just less able - they don't have the right language background for school, dont have the easy ability to study at home, etc.

'Grammar schools' (or something similar of a different name) are reasonably common in UK and its colonies and attempt what you are asking for - with very well documented positives and negatives.

There is definitely a massive issue of equality where children feel they aren't in the 'good' school this becomes an excuse for not bothering with school and then life. Equal education brings a lot of benefits to society at large.

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