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An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

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Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#11

Post by hellotomyrars »

effie wrote: post #5

It is so weird that men in army are willing to go and kill each other and later behave as friends "because they have a shared experience". Is it a coping mechanism to help oneself' conscience? Or maybe just an example that we really are just machines following the program of the day?

They had the same experience. They didn’t choose to fight each other as a matter of specificity, they chose to serve their country.

Soldiers are effectively tools of a nation and most of them understand that. They were both doing their jobs and why should they take it personally? They both came out the other side and if their roles had been reversed they would have done the same thing.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#12

Post by hollerith »

iaw wrote: post #3

This reminds me of the Soviet blockade of West Berlin. Virtually overnight two sides that had been trying to kill each other were working hand in hand to save the Germans living in Berlin.

>Virtually overnight

Except that the blockade began 3 years after hostilities between the US and Germany ended.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#13

Post by redis_mlc »

pastrami_panda wrote: post #7

For those curious (the article doesn't address it) it was the bomb hatch that momentarily gave away the planes position. I'm curious as to how such a huge oversight in the design of the craft made it to production, since it's widely known that 90 degree angles is a surefire way to get instantly detected on radar.

From what I've read, the US got complacent and flew the same air routes at the same time daily, and in this case the pilot did a climb. The Serb battery commander studied the above and just waited until the right moment.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#14

Post by pastrami_panda »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #10
pastrami_panda wrote: post #7

For those curious (the article doesn't address it) it was the bomb hatch that momentarily gave away the planes position. I'm curious as to how such a huge oversight in the design of the craft made it to production, since it's widely known that 90 degree angles is a surefire way to get instantly detected on radar.

How else do you release bombs? I believe that even modern stealth aircraft are more vulnerable when releasing missiles or bombs. The thing is if the aircraft gets to the point of releasing bombs or missiles it has pretty much done its job. You won't get that far without being stealthy.

From the top of my head using a hatch that folds up into an empty space seems like could reduce the radar signature significantly. I guess better yet a sliding door if avoiding empty space is paramount. I'm no expert but it just seems odd to expose several right angles when it seems it could be easily avoided?

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#15

Post by spockz »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #10
pastrami_panda wrote: post #7

For those curious (the article doesn't address it) it was the bomb hatch that momentarily gave away the planes position. I'm curious as to how such a huge oversight in the design of the craft made it to production, since it's widely known that 90 degree angles is a surefire way to get instantly detected on radar.

How else do you release bombs? I believe that even modern stealth aircraft are more vulnerable when releasing missiles or bombs. The thing is if the aircraft gets to the point of releasing bombs or missiles it has pretty much done its job. You won't get that far without being stealthy.

The doors could recess and roll away? I’m not an aeronautical engineer so no idea what that would do with the radar profile nor the flight characteristics of the plane.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#16

Post by [deleted] »

mhh__ wrote: post #6
effie wrote: post #5

It is so weird that men in army are willing to go and kill each other and later behave as friends "because they have a shared experience". Is it a coping mechanism to help oneself' conscience? Or maybe just an example that we really are just machines following the program of the day?

Modern warfare is increasingly buttons rather than bullets, so the psychology is different to (say) meeting the man who bayonetted you after the end of the great war.

[deleted]

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#17

Post by aerosmile »

There is so much gold in here. The human race would do well to explore how it's possible to turn hatred into love. It clearly happened here, and I've witnessed it on a smaller scale as a 16 year old in Vienna. As an immigrant, it was easy to find yourself in the wrong place at a wrong time. That finally happened one night, and the only thing that saved me was seeing a sign on one of the guys' jackets that belonged to a soccer club where I played in a young division (these guys were lifelong supporters, so my small achievement was enough to view me in a completely different light).

Deeply embedded in our evolutionary story is the urge to protect people you have something in common with (and I suppose this works the other way around as well). How easy would it be to hack this trait and increase the chances of world peace by consciously exploiting it on a global scale? Think of it as next-gen UN, but instead of focusing on top-down conflict resolution, we would work from the bottom up and search for things we're passionate about and can connect with people from across the world to collaborate on. Rule #1: teams should not be divided on a country by country basis.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#18

Post by creato »

mhh__ wrote: post #6
effie wrote: post #5

It is so weird that men in army are willing to go and kill each other and later behave as friends "because they have a shared experience". Is it a coping mechanism to help oneself' conscience? Or maybe just an example that we really are just machines following the program of the day?

Modern warfare is increasingly buttons rather than bullets, so the psychology is different to (say) meeting the man who bayonetted you after the end of the great war.

There are similar and even more extreme examples from when war was definitely not "buttons": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

I think the sibling comment to yours is a better explanation.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#20

Post by zerkten »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #10
pastrami_panda wrote: post #7

For those curious (the article doesn't address it) it was the bomb hatch that momentarily gave away the planes position. I'm curious as to how such a huge oversight in the design of the craft made it to production, since it's widely known that 90 degree angles is a surefire way to get instantly detected on radar.

How else do you release bombs? I believe that even modern stealth aircraft are more vulnerable when releasing missiles or bombs. The thing is if the aircraft gets to the point of releasing bombs or missiles it has pretty much done its job. You won't get that far without being stealthy.

You can only reduce the window that the aircraft is vulnerable, or deploy some kind of countermeasure to provide additional cover.

Only in the worst kind of situation is it acceptable to lose an aircraft like this, especially when you have control of the airspace. In most cases, stealth aircraft should be detected so late that you can't mount an initial defense, or an effective counter attack while the aircraft is returning to base.

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