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Peter Naur's view of programming

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Re: Peter Naur's view of programming

#11

_My_ source code is invaluable. It's open, public, free to reuse under the GPL. It's a complete implementation of a painting application used by millions of people. It's a huge amount of knowledge readily accessible. You won't be able to buy something like this for any sum of money, so it's free.

Context: They are the maintainer of Krita[0], a really popular open-source painting program.

[0] https://krita.org

Re: Peter Naur's view of programming

#12
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube-dl is an app chasing a moving operating of trying to interact with other sites APIs... many of which don't really even want to let youtube-dl do that. Most apps aren't in such a difficult space and keep working basically forever.

> Most apps aren't in such a difficult space and keep working basically forever. Sadly, this doesn't match my experience. Software that isn't actively maintained always dies, sooner or later.

Even if the project is 'dead' it still runs, particularly on Windows.

I'm running the final release of Winamp as I type this. I organize my hard disk with the 1.0 of Spacemonger, which was free before it went paid. I edit audio files with Sound Forge 11 (up to 14 or so now) and before that I had a pirated copy of 6.0 that worked pretty well. I have a 'programs' folder full of stuff that runs without installation, some of which hasn't been touched in 5 or 10 years, and everything still runs when I try it.

Code is eternal.

Re: Peter Naur's view of programming

#13
> But even Panic says in their blog post that they were not too concerned with competitors using their code either, mainly because it would quickly become outdated

And the legality bit? Big companies who aren't Uber know this isn't worth it, but even with smaller companies, if someone internally notices, the company could be in a lot of legal trouble. I haven't worked anywhere that would even consider using a competitor's code.

Re: Peter Naur's view of programming

#14
“One of the fears from management was that a big company like Google could take our code and build a competing service.”

Google, or any other respectable company, would not touch source code without a permissive license with a ten foot pole, least of all if it was retrieved as a result of improper access.

Re: Peter Naur's view of programming

#15

I agreed with a lot of the points and that often source code might not be valuable but.... Much of it sounded like only thinking of a small team doing something no one else care about. Conversely we have github and the millions of libraries it hosts in the form of source code. We also have examples of WebKit based on KHTML, Blink based on that. Electron/Edge/Brave/Vivaldi based on Chromium. There is no one programmer…

I don't think that Naur was arguing that it has to be a single developer who knows everything. It could also be multiple developers, where each one of them has loaded a sub-problem of a bigger problem into their head.

Usually in OSS projects you have a handful or so of contributors doing the bulk of the work, right? Imagine them all going away at once for one of those projects you mentioned. I feel the project would be in pretty bad shape.

Re: Peter Naur's view of programming

#16

“One of the fears from management was that a big company like Google could take our code and build a competing service.” Google, or any other respectable company, would not touch source code without a permissive license with a ten foot pole, least of all if it was retrieved as a result of improper access.

Agreed, I think that argument back then was just bad.

Re: Peter Naur's view of programming

#17
"Worthless" is an exaggeration: any significant body of code running a critical business process would be missed---and expensive to recreate---if it were lost. But I think the article does make a good point about the value to others. Unless you have a dev team whose head is in that code, and a business team built around that software workflow, just having the code won't be of much value to you. The value of software is inextricably linked to the team that has shaped it. So while it isn't worthless, it is certainly of much lower value without that team.

Re: Peter Naur's view of programming

#18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube-dl is an app chasing a moving operating of trying to interact with other sites APIs... many of which don't really even want to let youtube-dl do that. Most apps aren't in such a difficult space and keep working basically forever.

> Most apps aren't in such a difficult space and keep working basically forever. Sadly, this doesn't match my experience. Software that isn't actively maintained always dies, sooner or later.

AutoDock Vina[0] is one of the most popular molecular-docking softwares used (if we go by papers citing it). It was last updated on May 11, 2011.

I personally hold the opinion that if the project is not being maintained, giving away the source code allows someone else to pick it up.

[0] http://vina.scripps.edu/download.html

Re: Peter Naur's view of programming

#20

"Worthless" is an exaggeration: any significant body of code running a critical business process would be missed---and expensive to recreate---if it were lost. But I think the article does make a good point about the value to others. Unless you have a dev team whose head is in that code, and a business team built around that software workflow, just having the code won't be of much value to you. The value of software…

Agreed, worthless might have been a bit exaggerated.
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