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84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

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Re: 84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

#11

Gotta pay more money to keep the talent. This isn't rocket science. The crazy thing is Canada has so many advantages that should make paying higher salaries easier. University is cheaper, so people don't have as much (or any) student debt. Healthcare is cheaper for companies to provide - since they generally only have to offer supplemental coverage. And so on.

But aren’t those things cheaper because there are more taxes? And more taxes mean less salary?

No. There's a US media narrative that taxes and health care are worse in Canada than the US but:

1) You will likely pay more in taxes in California than Canada.

2) It's easier to itemize self-employment tax expenses in Canada, so you can easily pay half the taxes of the US. (I paid 12% of total income the last year I worked in Toronto.)

3) Everybody I know in Canada is happy with health care, and infinitely happier than Americans who've received false bills.

4) Startups have a big advantage in Canada because of the state health care, and unrelated lower salary expectations.

However, salaries are lower in Canada because companies pay less (like Europe or anywhere outside the US), but that's not related to taxes or health care.

Re: 84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

#12
post #7

Gotta pay more money to keep the talent. This isn't rocket science. The crazy thing is Canada has so many advantages that should make paying higher salaries easier. University is cheaper, so people don't have as much (or any) student debt. Healthcare is cheaper for companies to provide - since they generally only have to offer supplemental coverage. And so on.

American firms tend to have much higher quality corporate management than their Canadian counterparts.[1] To be profitable at FAAMG salaries requires leveraging your engineers to achieve very high levels of productivity and execution. That's generally not possible without management that consistently adheres to best practices. [1] https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.24.1.203

I think a bigger issue is the lack of venture capital. It's significantly harder to to raise the multi-million seed rounds needed to sustain Google/Amazon salary in Waterloo/Toronto

Re: 84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

#13
post #10

Why are SWEs paid so much less in Canada vs US?

Disparity is the norm. It would be weird if the pay was the same.

This is more true the more specialized you get. What is the pay for hockey coaches in Hawaii versus Toronto?

Re: 84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

#18
post #10

Why are SWEs paid so much less in Canada vs US?

Disparity is the norm. It would be weird if the pay was the same. This is more true the more specialized you get. What is the pay for hockey coaches in Hawaii versus Toronto?

The first two sites with listed fees for 1:1 skating lessons that I found:

Toronto: $160 CAD ($125.34 USD) for 45 minutes, which is $2.78 USD/minute https://www.evergreen.ca/whats-on/event/private-learn-to-ska...

Toronto: $9-$15 CAD ($7.05-$11.74 USD) per 15 minutes, which is $0.47-$0.78 USD/minute https://www.uppercanadaskating.com/pages/Programs/privateles....

Hawaii: $25 USD for 20 minutes, which is $1.25 USD/minute https://www.icepalacehawaii.com/private-lessons

Hawaii: Perhaps unsurprisingly, I wasn't able to find a second site in my 10 minute timebox.

Not trying to snark, was just interested in looking up some skating lessons.

Re: 84% of Waterloo Software Engineering undergrads move to the US upon graduation

#20
I've been in the USA for 12 years because of the pay difference, and job perks. I'd move back, but I'm married and have a family now.

The biggest stress down here is the healthcare and the immigration status, if you are at a stable enough company these aren't an issue, I'm lucky I only had 1 startup fail and cause me months of stress as I tried to fix those issues.

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