With the death of cash, privacy faces a deeply uncertain future • Hacker News Board

Re: With the death of cash, privacy faces a deeply uncertain future

#11

Post by Solocomplex » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

fatsdomino001 wrote: post #6

camjohnson26 wrote: post #3

Has anyone found a use for cash outside financing criminal operations? Transactions are slower than sending money electronically, the paper is subject to decay, and if your cash gets stolen you have no recourse to getting it back. The fact that a hundred dollar bill is worth a hundred real dollars is insanity and proof that its value is a speculative bubble that’s being driven by anarchist fanatics and criminals.

Giving money to homeless people. And as a general principle I don't like having all of my transactions logged and tracked. That's the same fallacy of "if you have nothing to hide, then submit yourself to complete tracking"

"it turns out you transferred $20 to a known drug addict and murderer. Mind answering a few questions about that?"

Re: With the death of cash, privacy faces a deeply uncertain future

#12

Post by camjohnson26 » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

This is the real killer app of cryptocurrency. Monero is a decentralized, untraceable digital cash that preserves privacy. All the arguments against cryptocurrency can also be applied to cash, but that doesn’t take away their main value proposition, which is a mathematically secure way to send payments while protecting the sender’s privacy.

Re: With the death of cash, privacy faces a deeply uncertain future

#13

Post by gruez » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 6:36 PM UTC

camjohnson26 wrote: post #3

Has anyone found a use for cash outside financing criminal operations? Transactions are slower than sending money electronically, the paper is subject to decay, and if your cash gets stolen you have no recourse to getting it back. The fact that a hundred dollar bill is worth a hundred real dollars is insanity and proof that its value is a speculative bubble that’s being driven by anarchist fanatics and criminals.

>The fact that a hundred dollar bill is worth a hundred real dollars

what? You're saying I can go to a bank, withdraw 90 one hundred dollar bills, and sell it to someone for more than $9000?

Re: With the death of cash, privacy faces a deeply uncertain future

#14

Post by theonlybutlet » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 6:36 PM UTC

There will always be an alternative, maybe even just bartering. Aside from organized crime, simple tax avoidance will be the main driver.

Re: With the death of cash, privacy faces a deeply uncertain future

#15

Post by cowboysauce » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 6:37 PM UTC

camjohnson26 wrote: post #3

Has anyone found a use for cash outside financing criminal operations? Transactions are slower than sending money electronically, the paper is subject to decay, and if your cash gets stolen you have no recourse to getting it back. The fact that a hundred dollar bill is worth a hundred real dollars is insanity and proof that its value is a speculative bubble that’s being driven by anarchist fanatics and criminals.

>Has anyone found a use for cash outside financing criminal operations?

I’ve gone camping and hiking in plenty of places that have no cellular service so cash is the only way to pay the fees.

>The fact that a hundred dollar bill is worth a hundred real dollars is insanity and proof that its value is a speculative bubble that’s being driven by anarchist fanatics and criminals.

Or, you know, because the government says that it’s worth 100$ and lets you pay 100$ in taxes with it.

Re: With the death of cash, privacy faces a deeply uncertain future

#16

Post by rvense » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 6:37 PM UTC

This article is very flawed. It mentions two scenarios: decentralized, uncontrolled money, versus government control. But it is missing the third scenario, which is the on that is actually happening in most places: plain old privatization.

The Chinese government might be trying to build a state-backed digital currency, but as the article states it is already almost cashless. And in Europe, as far as I know, each country already has one or a few de facto standard app-based solutions for digital payments between private persons. My country has instant bank transfers between banks and one mobile payment app. And at some point, the (American) smartphone solutions are likely to allow person-to-person transfer. This is all based on existing, privatized banking infrastructure which, while obviously not completely outside government control, is certainly not a public resource like the cash-based infrastructure was.

Re: With the death of cash, privacy faces a deeply uncertain future

#17

Post by gumby » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 6:40 PM UTC

camjohnson26 wrote: post #3

Has anyone found a use for cash outside financing criminal operations? Transactions are slower than sending money electronically, the paper is subject to decay, and if your cash gets stolen you have no recourse to getting it back. The fact that a hundred dollar bill is worth a hundred real dollars is insanity and proof that its value is a speculative bubble that’s being driven by anarchist fanatics and criminals.

Cash is easy for simple informal transactions (e.g. garage sales, farm stands and the like) and where connectivity is poor or nonexistent.

A lot of the alternatives involve unnecessary infrastructure (e.g. PayPal etc have various controls to block money laundering, which isn't the purpose of your once-a-decade garage sale) or are siloed, making it hard to quickly do business with someone who has a different brand of phone or doesn't have the right app installed.

And asynchronous transactions are hard (I used to buy a newspaper by leaving a quarter on a board and grabbing a paper...and this setup was next to a busy subway station!). And farm stands are often simply goods left out on the honor system.

Re: With the death of cash, privacy faces a deeply uncertain future

#18

Post by mensetmanusman » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

camjohnson26 wrote: post #3

Has anyone found a use for cash outside financing criminal operations? Transactions are slower than sending money electronically, the paper is subject to decay, and if your cash gets stolen you have no recourse to getting it back. The fact that a hundred dollar bill is worth a hundred real dollars is insanity and proof that its value is a speculative bubble that’s being driven by anarchist fanatics and criminals.

If you donate to political ideas that are unpopular a year later, a twitter mob of ideologues will destroy your career, à la Eich:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich

Re: With the death of cash, privacy faces a deeply uncertain future

#19

Post by camjohnson26 » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

cowboysauce wrote: post #15

camjohnson26 wrote: post #3

Has anyone found a use for cash outside financing criminal operations? Transactions are slower than sending money electronically, the paper is subject to decay, and if your cash gets stolen you have no recourse to getting it back. The fact that a hundred dollar bill is worth a hundred real dollars is insanity and proof that its value is a speculative bubble that’s being driven by anarchist fanatics and criminals.

>Has anyone found a use for cash outside financing criminal operations? I’ve gone camping and hiking in plenty of places that have no cellular service so cash is the only way to pay the fees. >The fact that a hundred dollar bill is worth a hundred real dollars is insanity and proof that its value is a speculative bubble that’s being driven by anarchist fanatics and criminals. Or, you know, because the government says…

How do you explain hyperinflation?

Re: With the death of cash, privacy faces a deeply uncertain future

#20

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

_qcti wrote: post #2

As long as it's framed as a way to cut off immoral right wing extremists from the financial system, Silicon Valley will enthusiastically embrace dystopian government control of currency.

[deleted]