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The Future of Libjpeg-Turbo

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Re: The Future of Libjpeg-Turbo

#11

Post by skissane »

kelnos wrote: post #8

I would consider donating, but I'd frankly prefer to donate to tax-exempt orgs. That way I can donate more with the same effective "cost" to myself. I get that it's not trivial to set one of these up (especially for someone who is already in a funding deficit), but I think it would make donations a more attractive option for people. Additionally, the email talks about funding in hours of development work, but doesn't…

> I get that it's not trivial to set one of these up (especially for someone who is already in a funding deficit), but I think it would make donations a more attractive option for people.

Is there any sort of general purpose tax exempt org for funding free/open-source software development? Someone makes a tax-exempt donation to that org, earmarked for a particular project, the org forwards the donation to that project as a grant (minus a deduction for admin costs/etc). Then on-boarding a new project would mean just getting that project approved as a grant recipient with that org, which presumably would be a simpler process than setting up a tax-exempt org from scratch.

Re: The Future of Libjpeg-Turbo

#12

Post by londons_explore »

kelnos wrote: post #9
_Microft wrote: post #7

It feels like patio11‘s comment on donating vs. paying for open source software should be linked to from here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10863939

For non-businesses, I think one thing that would make donations a lot more attractive is if they could be made to a tax-exempt org (that means I can donate more at the same cost to myself, or donate the same at lower cost). But I get that something like that is hard to set up for someone who is already under water funding-wise. It would be great if there was an umbrella org that could handle this, perhaps for a fee/p…

> and the software is also available for free under the same or similar terms

This would be illegal in many countries. The business must behave in its best interests. If software is available for free, yet they choose to pay for it, they aren't acting in their own best interests in the eyes of the law....

Re: The Future of Libjpeg-Turbo

#13

Post by wmf »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10
kelnos wrote: post #8

I would consider donating, but I'd frankly prefer to donate to tax-exempt orgs. That way I can donate more with the same effective "cost" to myself. I get that it's not trivial to set one of these up (especially for someone who is already in a funding deficit), but I think it would make donations a more attractive option for people. Additionally, the email talks about funding in hours of development work, but doesn't…

Strange thing: Open Collective's offers fiscal hosts for simplifying paperwork, but if you select the Open Source Collective as your fiscal host, donations are not tax deductible because they say "the IRS doesn't consider software development a charitable act" or something. But there's so many software non profits in the US and I really don't understand that claim. So Open Collective has another fiscal host for chari…

IRS doesn't consider software development a charitable act

This is correct AFAIK and Mozilla ran into the same thing years ago. Educational charities can be tax-exempt so you have to have an educational mission and develop software on the side. https://blogs.gnome.org/jnelson/2014/06/30/the-new-501c3-and...

Re: The Future of Libjpeg-Turbo

#14

Post by Denvercoder9 »

londons_explore wrote: post #12
kelnos wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For non-businesses, I think one thing that would make donations a lot more attractive is if they could be made to a tax-exempt org (that means I can donate more at the same cost to myself, or donate the same at lower cost). But I get that something like that is hard to set up for someone who is already under water funding-wise. It would be great if there was an umbrella org that could handle this, perhaps for a fee/p…

> and the software is also available for free under the same or similar terms This would be illegal in many countries. The business must behave in its best interests. If software is available for free, yet they choose to pay for it, they aren't acting in their own best interests in the eyes of the law....

Hence you pay for "support", not the software.

Re: The Future of Libjpeg-Turbo

#15

Post by JNRowe »

turbouser wrote: post #3

I would have a hard time convincing management to sponsor, but if there was an affordable support option, it would be easier.... We regularly pay 1k/year support for ‘mission critical’ systems.

The vim docs on sponsorship raise that exact issue(:h register{,-faq}). Being able to claim a donation is registration did make getting a donation through my employer easier for me.

Specifically, this part:

    What is the difference between sponsoring and registering?
    
    It has a different name.  Use the term "registration" 
    if your boss doesn't like "sponsoring" or "donation".
    The benefits are the same.
I'm not sure if continuing to use the term register versus being "that guy who tries to sponsor projects" is what works now though ;)

Re: The Future of Libjpeg-Turbo

#16

Post by jahewson »

skissane wrote: post #11
kelnos wrote: post #8

I would consider donating, but I'd frankly prefer to donate to tax-exempt orgs. That way I can donate more with the same effective "cost" to myself. I get that it's not trivial to set one of these up (especially for someone who is already in a funding deficit), but I think it would make donations a more attractive option for people. Additionally, the email talks about funding in hours of development work, but doesn't…

> I get that it's not trivial to set one of these up (especially for someone who is already in a funding deficit), but I think it would make donations a more attractive option for people. Is there any sort of general purpose tax exempt org for funding free/open-source software development? Someone makes a tax-exempt donation to that org, earmarked for a particular project, the org forwards the donation to that projec…

Not really. Tax-exempt status in the US prohibits donated money being earmarked. It also can’t be used to funnel money to arbitrary affiliates - they’d need to satisfy the permissible tax-free mission of the org. Plus those affiliates are going to end up paying the tax themselves. Without a clear picture of where the money is intended to go, it’s unlikely such an org could obtain tax-exempt status in the first place.

Note: tax-exempt status has become harder to obtain in recent years for open source projects.

Re: The Future of Libjpeg-Turbo

#17

Post by bigiain »

kelnos wrote: post #8

I would consider donating, but I'd frankly prefer to donate to tax-exempt orgs. That way I can donate more with the same effective "cost" to myself. I get that it's not trivial to set one of these up (especially for someone who is already in a funding deficit), but I think it would make donations a more attractive option for people. Additionally, the email talks about funding in hours of development work, but doesn't…

> but I'd frankly prefer to donate to tax-exempt orgs.

I would prefer to buy a new car from a "tax exempt org" to maximise the "effectiveness to myself" of my purchase.. That's just not the way the world works though. libjpeg-turbo isn't developed by a tax exempt org, and nothing that _is_ developed by a tax exempt or is a practical replacement for it.

If you want lib-jpeg to survive/thrive, donating to The EFF or The Red Cross isn't going to help, no matter what your personal preference for donating is.

(You don't have to agree with the assumption that a single-developer open source software library should provide income to keep the developer's bills/rent paid. But you do not get to make demands about how that dev structures his personal finances either. If he says "no more work unless more money comes in", you can choose to send him some money to help, or to allow him to freeze/abandon the development. Arguing about his tax exempt status is just being dishonest about you choosing to not send him money. Not funding it is fine. Don't hide behind some meaningless 'effective "cost" to myself' excuse for not doing so. Not unless you're prepared to set up a tax exempt foundation and guarantee him a salary from it...)

Re: The Future of Libjpeg-Turbo

#18

Post by skissane »

jahewson wrote: post #16
skissane wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get that it's not trivial to set one of these up (especially for someone who is already in a funding deficit), but I think it would make donations a more attractive option for people. Is there any sort of general purpose tax exempt org for funding free/open-source software development? Someone makes a tax-exempt donation to that org, earmarked for a particular project, the org forwards the donation to that projec…

Not really. Tax-exempt status in the US prohibits donated money being earmarked. It also can’t be used to funnel money to arbitrary affiliates - they’d need to satisfy the permissible tax-free mission of the org. Plus those affiliates are going to end up paying the tax themselves. Without a clear picture of where the money is intended to go, it’s unlikely such an org could obtain tax-exempt status in the first place.…

> Tax-exempt status in the US prohibits donated money being earmarked.

Is that true? According to for example [0], a donation earmarked for a particular individual is not tax-deductible, but a donation earmarked for a particular purpose can be. I think a donation earmarked to an open source project sounds more like the second than the first – they are free to give the money to any developer they wish, so long as that developer is going to use that money to work on the earmarked project.

[0] https://charitylawyerblog.com/2015/07/02/donations-benefitin...

Re: The Future of Libjpeg-Turbo

#19

Post by jart »

Denvercoder9 wrote: post #14
londons_explore wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the software is also available for free under the same or similar terms This would be illegal in many countries. The business must behave in its best interests. If software is available for free, yet they choose to pay for it, they aren't acting in their own best interests in the eyes of the law....

Hence you pay for "support", not the software.

It sounds more like kelnos is paying for influence. Sort of like inviting your congressman to dinner and drinks rather than writing an email for free.

Re: The Future of Libjpeg-Turbo

#20

Post by tonyhb »

DRC is an absolute beast. I respect the author in every way - from his incredible work on LibJPEG-Turbo to his 5 year slog getting VirtualGL to work without an x-server (https://github.com/VirtualGL/virtualgl/issues/10).

It's a shame he can't find support for this, because his projects truly are worth the effort for the niche they fill :(

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