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Authoritarianism Through Coding: Signal

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Re: Authoritarianism Through Coding: Signal

#11

Post by prepend »

I think authoritarianism is dangerous because of force.

The first time I used IRC I thought the mod system was unjust. In one channel the mods decided to allow democratic selection of mods, new mods were elected and the vote was “rigged” by extra accounts. The channel devolved into chaos and the mods took back over.

At a project level, authoritarianism is based on subject matter expertise and who started the project. And with open source this is strengthened by the ability to fork the project. If I don’t like a project, use something else. If I, and others, really don’t like the project, we can fork it and start our own copy.

Trying to “vote” a project you don’t like seems like a bankrupt idea to me. Either participate in the community, gain authority and credibility through contributions, or walk away and start a fork.

I think software works well with “benevolent dictatorships” as long as there’s no lock-in or requirement to use it.

Re: Authoritarianism Through Coding: Signal

#12

Post by eitland »

alisonkisk wrote: post #4

By denouncingly Movlxie Marlinspike (not Merlinspike) authoritarian because he run his free software project, the author pushes the communications ecosystem toward actual authoritarian systems. Fortunately the argument is utterly unconvincing as it is buzzword-based without logical reasoning.

> By denouncingly Movlxie Marlinspike (not Merlinspike) authoritarian because he run his free software project,

There is a funny "law" that whoever publicly corrects a spelling in someone elses writing is doomed to introduce a worse one themselves and it seems it held true this time :-D

Re: Authoritarianism Through Coding: Signal

#13

Post by smoyer »

I might be a bit biased because I actually have a marlinspike laying on my desk (it needs to get back into my line locker at some point) but this article reads as if the author has something against either Moxie Marlinspike or his company. The leader of a successful project HAS TO impose limits to move the project towards success. The only concrete example in the article is the removal of the non-standard client which may have had a real rationale that wasn't mentioned in the article (protection of a trademark?)

Re: Authoritarianism Through Coding: Signal

#14

Post by twic »

seisvelas wrote: post #6

Just two nitpicks: 1. Marlinspike is misspelled throughout the article as "Merlinspike" & 2. This article is super mamón. That's a word here in Mexico I'm not sure how to perfectly put into English, but here are some examples from the article: >Open Whisper Systems led by Moxie Merlinspike, who is behind Signal, is and was never behind freedom. >People died for freedom, they are still dying and struggling around the…

I might say the writer is over-egging the pudding.

Re: Authoritarianism Through Coding: Signal

#15

Post by zajio1am »

It is sad to see this push for yet another centralized client-locked comm-tool, being justified that this time it is OK because backing corporation is non-profit.

Ther real problem of centralized, closed systems is not profit, but concentration of power. Using such power to extract profit is just one of many perks of having such power.

Re: Authoritarianism Through Coding: Signal

#16

Post by anarchogeek »

This guy is an asshole. If he doesn't like signal is run he should do the work of running an alternative. Do the work of building something or shut the fuckup.

What's more, Moxie, created audio books of many well known anarchists texts, it's not something an authoritarian would do.

https://www.audioanarchy.org/

Moxie made signal work because he chose to ignore all the security 'experts' who keep insisting on unusable software. Use briar or the fully p2p version of matrix if you don't like signal. Or use the code Moxie has given to the public to adapt signal to your needs. He did 99% of the work for you.

Re: Authoritarianism Through Coding: Signal

#19

Post by eqvinox »

Freak_NL wrote: post #10
harporoeder wrote: post #2

I find the non free dependencies and centralization as annoying as the next person interested in the P2P sphere but I think Signal and Moxie have legitimate reasoning for their actions. Signal is intended for consumption by every day people not security enthusiasts. Any complication or inconvenience jeopardizes this goal. Something like picking a server, choosing an implementation, exchanging identities, setting up a…

Even without federalization Signal the platform is decidedly unfree. It is hard-tied to either Android or IOS (the desktop version requires the app on a smartphone with one of those two OSes) and requires the user's mobile phone number as identifier. These issues should be fairly trivial to solve from a technical standpoint (decidedly not something Open Whisper Systems can't handle), but these restrictions still rema…

The argument against this is the same as with the parent post to yours: UX. Signal has made the decision to use the phone number as identifier, and that's part of the reason it works so well for novices.

I totally agree with you; I would not have bound identities to phone numbers either. However, Signal is reaching a wide audience like little else has while still being more open than the other encrypted messengers. This seems to indicate that Signal has taken the best balance in compromise.

Re: Authoritarianism Through Coding: Signal

#20

Post by porbelm »

seisvelas wrote: post #6

Just two nitpicks: 1. Marlinspike is misspelled throughout the article as "Merlinspike" & 2. This article is super mamón. That's a word here in Mexico I'm not sure how to perfectly put into English, but here are some examples from the article: >Open Whisper Systems led by Moxie Merlinspike, who is behind Signal, is and was never behind freedom. >People died for freedom, they are still dying and struggling around the…

Yeah and the comment from Moxie that he first highlights is a complaint that LibreSignal used Signal's own servers for traffic. The ensuing discussion is hilarious.
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