Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 45 posts

Re: Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup

#11

Post by zwily »

zerocrates wrote: post #7
jcims wrote: post #6

coup /ko͞o/ noun 1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government. Sudden? Sure. Violent? Yes but on the lower end of the spectrum of human conflict. One person got shot by the police, one died of a heart attack, the rest had ‘medical emergencies’. (Edit: An officer died after being attacked by one of the rioters.) The part I’m not understanding is where was the attempt to seize power?

I mean, they stormed the seat of power of the legislature, halted the process of officially determining the next president, and caused the evacuation of a joint session of Congress, all quite literally under the banner of the loser of the election. How successful at it do they have to be to even rise to "attempt" in your mind? The people who came in armed and with zip-tie flex cuffs, what were they attempting to do?

Did they even know what they were attempting?

Re: Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup

#12

Post by Isamu »

jcims wrote: post #6

coup /ko͞o/ noun 1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government. Sudden? Sure. Violent? Yes but on the lower end of the spectrum of human conflict. One person got shot by the police, one died of a heart attack, the rest had ‘medical emergencies’. (Edit: An officer died after being attacked by one of the rioters.) The part I’m not understanding is where was the attempt to seize power?

We don’t have a word as popular and overused as “coup” to describe the attempt to shut down the transfer of power.

But this did involve the storming of a legislature in session in a obvious attempt to thwart the proceedings in a power grab. It was poorly organized but seemed premeditated on the part of many participants.

Re: Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup

#13

Post by fakedang »

throwaway888abc wrote: post #4

The police selfie from breached property is ... interesting https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1346920198461419520?ref...

From a wise woman on Twitter: You don't ask where Miley Cyrus is when Hannah Montana's performing on stage, do you?

Re: Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup

#14

Post by almost_usual »

throwaway888abc wrote: post #4

The police selfie from breached property is ... interesting https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1346920198461419520?ref...

vs the police officer who was bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher

Re: Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup

#15

Post by ttyprintk »

jcims wrote: post #6

coup /ko͞o/ noun 1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government. Sudden? Sure. Violent? Yes but on the lower end of the spectrum of human conflict. One person got shot by the police, one died of a heart attack, the rest had ‘medical emergencies’. (Edit: An officer died after being attacked by one of the rioters.) The part I’m not understanding is where was the attempt to seize power?

Both a successful and failed coup are attempts to seize power. It seems to me that failed coups are more obvious because successful ones can rewrite themselves to avoid being mistaken as riots.

If you can't tell this is a coup, then it might be your first -- the punchline from: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/trumps-far...

Riots are sudden, violent and illegal. This was a riot organized to specifically stop the transfer of power. Only the characteristic "sudden" is doubtful; this coup was organized in the open, without the usual element of surprise.

Re: Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup

#16

Post by cyrus_ »

jcims wrote: post #6

coup /ko͞o/ noun 1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government. Sudden? Sure. Violent? Yes but on the lower end of the spectrum of human conflict. One person got shot by the police, one died of a heart attack, the rest had ‘medical emergencies’. (Edit: An officer died after being attacked by one of the rioters.) The part I’m not understanding is where was the attempt to seize power?

There were people with zip tie handcuffs and guns in the chamber, fortunately after it had been evacuated. I don't know what they planned to do, but I imagine best case would be a hostage situation where they demand that the electoral count be stopped until their conspiracy theories about electoral fraud were considered. Worst case they execute democratic leadership, which is far from an implausible scenario given reports that they were looking for Pelosi and Schumer's offices (and found them, and looted them). Keep in mind that their media sphere is full of conspiracy theories that accuse politicians of child abuse. Minimizing what happened here would be a big mistake.

Re: Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup

#18

Post by jcims »

zerocrates wrote: post #7
jcims wrote: post #6

coup /ko͞o/ noun 1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government. Sudden? Sure. Violent? Yes but on the lower end of the spectrum of human conflict. One person got shot by the police, one died of a heart attack, the rest had ‘medical emergencies’. (Edit: An officer died after being attacked by one of the rioters.) The part I’m not understanding is where was the attempt to seize power?

I mean, they stormed the seat of power of the legislature, halted the process of officially determining the next president, and caused the evacuation of a joint session of Congress, all quite literally under the banner of the loser of the election. How successful at it do they have to be to even rise to "attempt" in your mind? The people who came in armed and with zip-tie flex cuffs, what were they attempting to do?

In my opinion this was a sloppy mob that bum rushed reprehensible security and got farther than they ever expected. People die in riots all of the time, I don't really see what elevates this to anything beyond that...the process got stalled for a few hours and then proceeded. If you want to call it a coup attempt be my guest, I just think it's histrionic.

Re: Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup

#19

Post by Solocomplex »

zwily wrote: post #11
zerocrates wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, they stormed the seat of power of the legislature, halted the process of officially determining the next president, and caused the evacuation of a joint session of Congress, all quite literally under the banner of the loser of the election. How successful at it do they have to be to even rise to "attempt" in your mind? The people who came in armed and with zip-tie flex cuffs, what were they attempting to do?

Did they even know what they were attempting?

Chaos is the MO for this administration.

Re: Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup

#20

Post by ttyprintk »

aaron695 wrote: post #3

> Another video showed a police officer allowing a rioter to take a selfie with him inside the Capitol The alternative for that officer was violence. While surrounded. The lies coming out of the media (which normally lie he took the selfie with the protesters) at the moment are insane. Sure, "Trump deliberately attempted a coup".... because he's mentally ill. But the media is actually pulling off a real coup by consi…

Trump led the attack, and has motivated an insurgency. The coup is the cooperation between insurgents and the security force. That's why the media is covering the selfie.

Trump is currently not mentally-ill enough to be unfit for the Presidency. Of course, that's decided at the Capitol, so it may change after he directed violence toward it.

And Fox News agrees with other outlets about the circumstances of five deaths.

This article is about NATO contemplating what it would mean to bring financial sanctions against the USA under the circumstances of a successful coup.

Post reply on HN