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Quitting a New Job

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Re: Quitting a New Job

#11

Post by [deleted] »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #4
nickff wrote: post #2

I realize that HN is very employee-centric, but "exploring new opportunities but don’t quit until something better is lined up" is rather harmful to the team you're working with. If someone's just started, they're generally a net-negative, so the individual is both drawing pay and sucking resources. This is almost 'quitting in-place'. If we expect startups and companies to act ethically (in terms of pay, benefits, op…

> "exploring new opportunities but don’t quit until something better is lined up" is rather harmful to the team you're working with. How so? > If we expect startups and companies to act ethically (in terms of pay, benefits, options, etc.), we should expect the same of employees. I'm not sure what an ethical action from an employee would look like under this framework; quit and live without an income during any job se…

[deleted]

Re: Quitting a New Job

#12

Post by stanrivers »

janosett wrote: post #6
nickff wrote: post #2

I realize that HN is very employee-centric, but "exploring new opportunities but don’t quit until something better is lined up" is rather harmful to the team you're working with. If someone's just started, they're generally a net-negative, so the individual is both drawing pay and sucking resources. This is almost 'quitting in-place'. If we expect startups and companies to act ethically (in terms of pay, benefits, op…

This is the risk with at-will employment in CA. The employer could very well decide after two days of you working there that they wanted to let you go -- there's no part of the contract keeping either side from ending things early. I don't think it's unethical to leave after a short amount of time given the employer has no equivalent expectation.

I agree with this. However, I will say unless there is something major wrong with you or major at the company, you are now going to be fired very quickly. The company also doesn’t want that reputation.

I work in finance and certain hedge funds have a reputation for cutting people quickly they don’t like. It attracts people that are ok with that and most stay away.

That all said - you got to look out for you and your family and friends, so you got to do it sometimes. Just wanted to say that, most of the times, the feeling of a commitment to each other goes both ways during the honeymoon period between company and person.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#13

Post by whitepaint »

0x445442 wrote: post #7
MattGaiser wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this solve the other problem, that job hopping is the best way to get a raise?

Not only that, but I'm getting the feeling a developer's best option these days for maximizing pay increases is to spend their free time on Leetcode. Which in my opinion is a problem from an industry perspective.

> Which in my opinion is a problem from an industry perspective.

Why? If a person can learn bunch of algorithms and apply them to custom problems they probably can do quite a bit with computers. And it shows that they probably can learn new stuff rapidly as well. I don't get why so many developers hate Leetcode. I love it personally, I think it's great. And also, I think people are just lazy and don't want to learn new stuff so they whine instead. I don't think whining will help them.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#15

Post by munchbunny »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #3

> As I noted in a previous post, switching teams is a lot easier than switching jobs. I didn’t do this before I left Stripe because there weren’t any other teams that I was super enthusiastic about at the time. But, in retrospect, I probably should have given this a try before quitting. A few years ago, I was looking for a new job after being laid off. I had two competing companies to choose from, and chose the one t…

They knew the reasons I was feeling frustrated, and felt confident that those issues were either not a problem on their team, or were at least being worked on. I still kind of wonder how true that was, and what would have happened if I'd made the switch internally, instead.

That's always a judgement call on your part. Were your problems just with your part of the management tree, or were they more systematic with the company? If it's the former case, switching teams might help. In the latter, best to get a fresh start and new perspective. Most people feel a bit of exceptionalism when it comes to their team being not like the others, without knowing what your particular issues with your current situation are. In my personal experience "if only you'd have let me know beforehand" comes more from a place of self-interest in finding/retaining talent than necessarily interest in the other person's career.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#16

Post by sethammons »

janosett wrote: post #6
nickff wrote: post #2

I realize that HN is very employee-centric, but "exploring new opportunities but don’t quit until something better is lined up" is rather harmful to the team you're working with. If someone's just started, they're generally a net-negative, so the individual is both drawing pay and sucking resources. This is almost 'quitting in-place'. If we expect startups and companies to act ethically (in terms of pay, benefits, op…

This is the risk with at-will employment in CA. The employer could very well decide after two days of you working there that they wanted to let you go -- there's no part of the contract keeping either side from ending things early. I don't think it's unethical to leave after a short amount of time given the employer has no equivalent expectation.

A buddy of mine got a new job, quit the old one, showed up day one and was laid off immediately. Apparently their budget had changed. Oof!

We also hired a c-level exec who came aboard apparently having already accepted a different offer and came on for under a month to collect pay and get some juicy stock. Apparently they negotiated well and walked off very, very well paid.

Edit: not sure if I have a point there other than both employees and companies can be jerks. We should all be better.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#17

Post by whatever1 »

nickff wrote: post #2

I realize that HN is very employee-centric, but "exploring new opportunities but don’t quit until something better is lined up" is rather harmful to the team you're working with. If someone's just started, they're generally a net-negative, so the individual is both drawing pay and sucking resources. This is almost 'quitting in-place'. If we expect startups and companies to act ethically (in terms of pay, benefits, op…

Don’t throw the ethics word in the sole business that the employees have some leverage. Employers will let you go without a second thought about your family / health situation and you will be told that this is just business.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#18

Post by ketzo »

MattGaiser wrote: post #5
pavel_lishin wrote: post #3

> As I noted in a previous post, switching teams is a lot easier than switching jobs. I didn’t do this before I left Stripe because there weren’t any other teams that I was super enthusiastic about at the time. But, in retrospect, I probably should have given this a try before quitting. A few years ago, I was looking for a new job after being laid off. I had two competing companies to choose from, and chose the one t…

Does this solve the other problem, that job hopping is the best way to get a raise?

In my admittedly limited experience, nope. Team changes are almost never accompanied with a raise; usually your job title isn't even changing.

That's not to say they're a bad option, but it still seems like you've gotta jump to a different company to maximize earnings.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#19

Post by stale2002 »

nickff wrote: post #2

I realize that HN is very employee-centric, but "exploring new opportunities but don’t quit until something better is lined up" is rather harmful to the team you're working with. If someone's just started, they're generally a net-negative, so the individual is both drawing pay and sucking resources. This is almost 'quitting in-place'. If we expect startups and companies to act ethically (in terms of pay, benefits, op…

> we should expect the same of employees.

No we shouldn't. The reason being that this puts employees at a significant disadvantage compared to the multitude of companies doing much worse things.

Obviously, there is always a line that one should not crossed. EX: don't do anything that is blatantly illegal.

But taken advantage of at-will employment status, which is fully within someone's legal right to do so? Go for it. If the company is upset about it, then they should have offered better employment terms.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#20

Post by gnicholas »

I once quit a job after 6 weeks. From the day I started (when I saw my boss for about 30 seconds, was not given a computer or any information about how to get started/set up), it was clear things were not going well. The team I was joining had mostly disbanded (a mix of fired, left for greener pastures, or transferred to another region). As a result, there was no institutional knowledge, just as my team was put in charge of handling an immense new project.

I could see that in the best case, I would be there long enough to get up to speed on my position, just in time to leave. That wouldn't do a service to the company, so I gave my notice after 6 weeks.

To my boss' credit, he offered that I could stick around for a while until I found my next gig. Looking back, I guess this served his interests also — it would have been hard for him to recruit for this position if a newly-arrived team member left so quickly, following on the heels of several other departures.

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