Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays • Hacker News Board

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#11

Post by mft_ » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #3

ultimoo wrote: post #2

Not sure what's so surprising/interesting about this (I don't have a subscription to read the full article). This nugget in the introduction seems to summarize the tech behind this -- > Sensors installed in electric bays can be used to detect the presence of a vehicle and whether it is being used to recharge the car battery.

So it will fine an electric car that parks in the bay if it isn't charging? These are not really parking spots anymore. They are "charging bays". That's cool. Just remember not to park your electric car there with a full battery. I guess if your battery is full, by the time you drive around a while looking for another spot it will be low enough that you will be allowed to use the bay. The few times I've tried to char…

Maybe I’ve been lucky, but here in the EU, I’ve not yet found a non-Tesla charger that won’t charge my Tesla.

And also, the mobility+ app (no affiliation) has dealt fine with multiple brands of charger.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#12

Post by Rygian » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #5

paledot wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not parking spots. Don't park next to a gas pump if you're not putting gas in the car, even if it has an internal combustion engine.

I did exactly that this morning. I put gas in my car, paid at the pump, then walked in to buy a drink. I certainly wouldn't do that if people were waiting for the pump, but the option is there and used by drivers regularly.

Not sure if your implication is that you could do the same thing on any other spot (e.g. a spot for disabled, a load/unload spot, a spot reserved for police cars), as long as "people are not waiting for it".

In any case, the rule I follow is to move the car where it doesn't block a scarce resource.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#13

Post by jfk13 » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

kwhitefoot wrote: post #8

Would be better to spend the money that this will cost on fitting a simple domestic socket in every parking bay. That we even my Tesla will gain 13 km per hour of charging.

Running power -- even just 13A power -- to every parking bay, not to mention ensuring those "simple domestic sockets" are safe to use in all weather conditions, will probably make this quite a bit more expensive than you think.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#14

Post by bobthepanda » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #10

SteveGerencser wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People treat gas pumps as parking spots all the time. It's even more frustrating when you are driving a diesel and the only diesel pump at the station is blocked by a gas car and the owner has wandered off to get a coffee or use the restroom, all while multiple gas pumps sit empty.

Most petrol/gasoline stations make the majority of their money selling other products, particularly in non urban locations. Milk, newspapers, magazines etc. This business model makes refuelling stations a viable business since the margins on fuel costs are so slim. One of the challenges with the crude political attempts to force EV usage (carrot/subsidies, Stick/fines) is the lack of coherent planning behind it. What…

Don’t EVs take longer to charge than a gas fill-up? Presumably that would be better for a model where you want people to stick around and buy things, not worse.

At least in the Netherlands, there are basically mini golf carts that are legally bikes for disabled people. https://youtu.be/B9ly7JjqEb0

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#15

Post by gambiting » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

kwhitefoot wrote: post #8

Would be better to spend the money that this will cost on fitting a simple domestic socket in every parking bay. That we even my Tesla will gain 13 km per hour of charging.

I'm still eagerly awaiting explanation on how this is going to work with terraced houses where there's about 40 houses on each side and people park how and where they want, and most importantly where the local council barely has enough money to fix the worst potholes. But suddenly they are going to dig up a 300 year old street to put down enough cabling and charging points for every car. My question is "with what money".

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#16

Post by orev » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #5

paledot wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not parking spots. Don't park next to a gas pump if you're not putting gas in the car, even if it has an internal combustion engine.

I did exactly that this morning. I put gas in my car, paid at the pump, then walked in to buy a drink. I certainly wouldn't do that if people were waiting for the pump, but the option is there and used by drivers regularly.

But you were a customer of the gas pump during that visit/session, so that example doesn’t apply. It would only apply if you used the pump area for parking, when other non-pump spaces were available, and you did not purchase fuel.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#17

Post by maxerickson » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #10

SteveGerencser wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People treat gas pumps as parking spots all the time. It's even more frustrating when you are driving a diesel and the only diesel pump at the station is blocked by a gas car and the owner has wandered off to get a coffee or use the restroom, all while multiple gas pumps sit empty.

Most petrol/gasoline stations make the majority of their money selling other products, particularly in non urban locations. Milk, newspapers, magazines etc. This business model makes refuelling stations a viable business since the margins on fuel costs are so slim. One of the challenges with the crude political attempts to force EV usage (carrot/subsidies, Stick/fines) is the lack of coherent planning behind it. What…

The story here is an example of how electric vehicle charging happens. Dedicated charging spaces all over the place instead of service stations.

As long as the percentage of spaces roughly corresponds to the percentage of electric vehicles, it shouldn't be real disruptive.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#18

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #5

paledot wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not parking spots. Don't park next to a gas pump if you're not putting gas in the car, even if it has an internal combustion engine.

I did exactly that this morning. I put gas in my car, paid at the pump, then walked in to buy a drink. I certainly wouldn't do that if people were waiting for the pump, but the option is there and used by drivers regularly.

When I Supercharge, I get a push notification that idle fees start ($1/minute) 5 minutes after the charge completes.

Econ 101: Incentives matter

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#19

Post by sandworm101 » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #10

SteveGerencser wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People treat gas pumps as parking spots all the time. It's even more frustrating when you are driving a diesel and the only diesel pump at the station is blocked by a gas car and the owner has wandered off to get a coffee or use the restroom, all while multiple gas pumps sit empty.

Most petrol/gasoline stations make the majority of their money selling other products, particularly in non urban locations. Milk, newspapers, magazines etc. This business model makes refuelling stations a viable business since the margins on fuel costs are so slim. One of the challenges with the crude political attempts to force EV usage (carrot/subsidies, Stick/fines) is the lack of coherent planning behind it. What…

>> What happens when/if there are huge numbers of EV's?

The strange thing is that there is a model for this already. I live in a rather cold part of Canada. My apartment block has AC outlets for each parking spot. So too does my work, and all local hotels. These are meant to power block heaters, something that doesn't really exist in the UK, but in recent years some people have been using them to charge their EV/hybrids. The charging rates are very low but the ubiquity of the outlets make them relevant. Having very small/cheap charging points on literally every parking spot might be the better approach than a few dedicated high capacity "charge bays". These outlets are dirt cheap to install. No IP issues, no electronics, no networks. Just an outlet and a circuit breaker.

(These are also all free to use. Administering a payment system for each outlet would cost more than the power.)

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#20

Post by gambiting » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

mft_ wrote: post #11

sandworm101 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it will fine an electric car that parks in the bay if it isn't charging? These are not really parking spots anymore. They are "charging bays". That's cool. Just remember not to park your electric car there with a full battery. I guess if your battery is full, by the time you drive around a while looking for another spot it will be low enough that you will be allowed to use the bay. The few times I've tried to char…

Maybe I’ve been lucky, but here in the EU, I’ve not yet found a non-Tesla charger that won’t charge my Tesla. And also, the mobility+ app (no affiliation) has dealt fine with multiple brands of charger.

You were definitely lucky. I've driven through Germany last summer and I couldn't find a single charger that worked, every single one required an app, one wouldn't accept my non-german card, second one didn't have a menu in English so I didn't know how to set it up, third one gave me an "unspecified error" and told me to ring their helpline, but upon calling them discovered they are closed on Sunday. So in the end I didn't charge in Germany at all.