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European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income
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Re: European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income
#12How does UBI work with different costs of living? Do city dwellers get more than rural folk?
Re: European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income
#13I use to think UBI was a good thing, but looking at what's happened in the past year, I was completely and totally wrong. UBI would likely be a complete disaster. It'd be less Star Trek and more The Expanse. This is a horrible idea.
What happened? Some people got a one-time $1200 check. What could they have done with $1200 that made you lose faith in UBI? Or are you referring to the $600 that supplemented the unemployment insurance? But those went to people who were just recently working and had their livelihoods wrecked by government action and/or inaction. I'm pretty sure you would agree they deserve that money and it's okay for them to do wha…
It illustrates, if needed be, that handing meaningful amounts of money to all or most of the population in a recurring way is not sustainable.
The responses to the covid lockdowns, which are incredibly expensive, were only considered because they were one-offs and time-limited.
If payments are restricted to a minority, the poorest, then it boils down to what already exists in most European countries and the question is then "what's new?"
In general UBI proposals are ideological solutions to ideologically-constructed problems. They are not realistic nor practical and thus thin on practical considerations and hard numbers.
Re: European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income
#14As a middle class Spaniard, these are a few things that stand out about my country's economy:
1) Unemployment rate is very high (16%+)
2) Under 25 unemployment is extremely high (40%+)
3) Inequality is very high, with 10M+ people struggling to make ends meet
4) The country lacks affordable housing (property and rent are expensive when compared to salaries)
Some areas of Spain have implemented different forms of basic income for decades now (these usually go by names such as 'renta de gastos esenciales', 'renta de ingresos', etc).
I have lived in two of those areas and I can say that this form of income only mitigates poverty and improves quality of life slightly. You don't just get rid of the four points I mentioned above.
Re: European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
What happened? Some people got a one-time $1200 check. What could they have done with $1200 that made you lose faith in UBI? Or are you referring to the $600 that supplemented the unemployment insurance? But those went to people who were just recently working and had their livelihoods wrecked by government action and/or inaction. I'm pretty sure you would agree they deserve that money and it's okay for them to do wha…
It's not about what the people done and faith in them or their claims from moral or other points of views. These $1200 nearly destroyed the European economies. My country is forever indebted now, and they handed out much less and not even to everyone but a small portion of people.
National debt and private debt are two very different creatures. National debt is for the most part a good thing, since it's a measure of the amount of a national currency is in circulation
Modern economic theory proposes that nations, with full control over their currency, have infinite spending power (aka can go into infinite debt) without any issues, as long as full-employment hasn't been reached
This is of course not entirely possible for many EU countries, since being a member of the eurozone means the country does not have full control over its currency - which was a large contributor to, for instance, the Greek financial crisis
Re: European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
What happened? Some people got a one-time $1200 check. What could they have done with $1200 that made you lose faith in UBI? Or are you referring to the $600 that supplemented the unemployment insurance? But those went to people who were just recently working and had their livelihoods wrecked by government action and/or inaction. I'm pretty sure you would agree they deserve that money and it's okay for them to do wha…
It's not about what the people done and faith in them or their claims from moral or other points of views. These $1200 nearly destroyed the European economies. My country is forever indebted now, and they handed out much less and not even to everyone but a small portion of people.
This is not like a universal basic income though: it was not universal.
Handing of the money in an emergency situation has also the fundamental difference that it isn't meant to be sustainable: it's one off, and the preparation does not include reworking the financial structure of the state to make it permanent, like all UBI proposals I've seen so far.
Re: European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income
#17What I would like to support is a large and long term study involving multiple families in multiple European countries with multiple values.
Re: European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income
#18How does UBI work with different costs of living? Do city dwellers get more than rural folk?
Also, how does UBI work with different life circumstances. Does a disabled person get extra to cover wheelchair maintenance? Does allergic person gets more to afford allergy-OK food? Does woman get more to cover pads/tampons?
Re: European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income
#19How does UBI work with different costs of living? Do city dwellers get more than rural folk?
And should they? Or is it reasonable to expect that those unable to work temporarily move to some low/reasonable cost area of living? Or find solution sufficient solution with the ubi they get.
Re: European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income
#20I use to think UBI was a good thing, but looking at what's happened in the past year, I was completely and totally wrong. UBI would likely be a complete disaster. It'd be less Star Trek and more The Expanse. This is a horrible idea.
If you're talking about the stimulus checks, well they weren't universal, nor basic (but rather a long unpredictable negotiation), nor recurring income.