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Telegram's getting ads

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Re: Telegram's getting ads

#11

Post by rglullis »

bilal4hmed wrote: post #4
fsflover wrote: post #2

This is why decentralization is the future. Any sufficiently popular walled garden will have such problem (I'm looking at you Signal). Consider using Matrix instead.

I like Matrix, but when it comes to ease of use and onboarding Signal is easier for the general audience.

Is this a counter-argument, or plain pontification? OP clearly states that there is a fundamental issue with any centralized solution (i.e, the moment that it becomes too big, it will succumb to the interests of its owners) and you respond by saying "well, Signal is easier for the general audience"?

It might be easier, so what? Apple's products are supposedly more privacy-oriented than the Facebook's/Google's. So what? The idea is that we should be rooting/encouraging others to put decentralization and freedom as a top-priority choice, not to keep excusing ourselves into adopting solutions that are bound to become another dominant walled garden.

If you want to argue for Matrix vs XMPP, or XMPP vs SIP or any other decentralized protocol, by all means go ahead. Just please don't come with "I like Matrix, but here is a completely lazy cop-out that I will use to justify to not fight the good fight"

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#12

Post by utf_8x »

I'd recommend Signal[0] as an alternative. It's fully Open-Source (including the backend) and their crypto is public and independently verified[1][2][3]...

[0] https://signal.org/en/

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Encryption_p...

[2] https://threatpost.com/signal-audit-reveals-protocol-cryptog...

[3] https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1013.pdf [PDF]

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#13

Post by otachack »

bilal4hmed wrote: post #9
____________g wrote: post #8

I don't understand how Telegram has managed to stay free for 8 (?) years until now. Was there ever a catch? Since the start it has continuously improved to become a feature-packed product that's easy to use, with a pleasant UI.

The founder had been covering the costs

Yep. Summarized, the founder found the Russian equivalent of Facebook, sold it, and started + sustained Telegram with the proceeds.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#14

Post by bilal4hmed »

rglullis wrote: post #11
bilal4hmed wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Matrix, but when it comes to ease of use and onboarding Signal is easier for the general audience.

Is this a counter-argument, or plain pontification? OP clearly states that there is a fundamental issue with any centralized solution (i.e, the moment that it becomes too big, it will succumb to the interests of its owners) and you respond by saying "well, Signal is easier for the general audience"? It might be easier, so what ? Apple's products are supposedly more privacy-oriented than the Facebook's/Google's. So wh…

Its not a lazy cop out. There is a reason why Telegram, WhatsApp, iMessage have more users - they are simple to use for an audience that is not tech savvy.

Matrix has a long way to go before getting people to join is "easy". Theyve done great work over this year to get that done, but its far from perfect.

Fight the good fight but dont forget what makes an app attract users. Even now on matrix, when you sign up, matrix.org is the default server. If majority go about signing up without changing that, you end up with a centralized service.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#15

Post by otachack »

utf_8x wrote: post #12

I'd recommend Signal[0] as an alternative. It's fully Open-Source (including the backend) and their crypto is public and independently verified[1][2][3]... [0] https://signal.org/en/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Encryption_p... [2] https://threatpost.com/signal-audit-reveals-protocol-cryptog... [3] https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1013.pdf [PDF]

Signal is great and I believe it does have better crypto. But the UI is severely lacking along with feature set.

Telegram feels like it's adding something new every few months, though the documentation over the features is poor since it's mostly through announcements. It's also a lot more customizable. I ultimately settled on Telegram because it was a good balance of feature-rich and crypto (when you use it)

That being said, it was hard enough to get a small group of friends to transition to Telegram. Signal would be much harder due to not having so many niceties.

I wish both to continue competing against each other, though. It's great to have choices that aren't owned by the big corporations.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#16

Post by local_dev »

utf_8x wrote: post #12

I'd recommend Signal[0] as an alternative. It's fully Open-Source (including the backend) and their crypto is public and independently verified[1][2][3]... [0] https://signal.org/en/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Encryption_p... [2] https://threatpost.com/signal-audit-reveals-protocol-cryptog... [3] https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1013.pdf [PDF]

Does signal still have a problem of dropping messages? I tried to use it as a replacement for Android Messages a while ago but roughly 10-25% of all messages were not received any given day.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#17

Post by vorpalhex »

fsflover wrote: post #2

This is why decentralization is the future. Any sufficiently popular walled garden will have such problem (I'm looking at you Signal). Consider using Matrix instead.

Someone, somewhere, still has to pay for your Matrix instance. Please consider chipping in a few dollars to whoever hosts it, both for their direct costs and their time.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#18

Post by utf_8x »

local_dev wrote: post #16
utf_8x wrote: post #12

I'd recommend Signal[0] as an alternative. It's fully Open-Source (including the backend) and their crypto is public and independently verified[1][2][3]... [0] https://signal.org/en/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Encryption_p... [2] https://threatpost.com/signal-audit-reveals-protocol-cryptog... [3] https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1013.pdf [PDF]

Does signal still have a problem of dropping messages? I tried to use it as a replacement for Android Messages a while ago but roughly 10-25% of all messages were not received any given day.

Not to my knowledge... I use Signal every day and haven't noticed any message loss lately.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#19

Post by utf_8x »

otachack wrote: post #15
utf_8x wrote: post #12

I'd recommend Signal[0] as an alternative. It's fully Open-Source (including the backend) and their crypto is public and independently verified[1][2][3]... [0] https://signal.org/en/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Encryption_p... [2] https://threatpost.com/signal-audit-reveals-protocol-cryptog... [3] https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1013.pdf [PDF]

Signal is great and I believe it does have better crypto. But the UI is severely lacking along with feature set. Telegram feels like it's adding something new every few months, though the documentation over the features is poor since it's mostly through announcements. It's also a lot more customizable. I ultimately settled on Telegram because it was a good balance of feature-rich and crypto (when you use it) That bei…

I agree, the UI is very lacking and the UX could be better but there are VERY frequent updates and new features seem to be added regularly...

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#20

Post by grishka »

As someone who knew Durov personally, I'd say that it's very unlikely that the UX will be ruined by ads, and even more unlikely that users will be manipulated and/or tracked in any way. If there's one thing he does well it's respecting his users. He knows what "we're earning enough to cover our expenses" means. The company is privately owned so no one will be pushing him into anything either.

Many popular Telegram channels already have ads in them, posted by their creators. My understanding is that Telegram will be taking control of this by acting as an intermediary, taking a cut and possibly deciding what goes through. Thinking of it, it makes sense, and doesn't alter the UX at all for the average user.

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