A conversation about open source licenses • Hacker News Board

Re: A conversation about open source licenses

#11

Post by tzs » Sun, May 15, 2011, 10:29 AM UTC

I haven't done much open source (all I've got out there is a thing to suck a small newsfeed from an NNTP server, a simple NNTP cache, three Warhammer Online add-ons, and a Talisman calculator for Wahammer Online), as my job at a mostly closed source company raises enough challenges to occupy all of the time I have for programming.

However, Zed Shaw really tempts me to make time to get involved in open source, especially in projects that will have some tangential connection to him. That's because I haven't been in a really good flame war with a worthy opponent since the old usenet days. From what I've read, it seems he would be more than worthy and not too hard to provoke. :-)

Re: A conversation about open source licenses

#12

Post by piotrSikora » Sun, May 15, 2011, 10:31 AM UTC

chapel wrote: post #10

piotrSikora wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://bettween.com/ryah/zedshaw/May-07-2011/May-15-2011/asc is far more readable ;) But back on topic... Even if Ryan really rewritten all of the original mongrel's code by hand, then there is still issue with nginx-based portions. Why there is no attribution to Igor Sysoev ?

Yeah, but what is the fun in that? If it was rewritten, with all new code, why would there need to be attribution?

Ryan said that the current version uses nginx's URL parser, so clearly not everything is new code.

Re: A conversation about open source licenses

#13

Post by petercooper » Sun, May 15, 2011, 11:00 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #11

I haven't done much open source (all I've got out there is a thing to suck a small newsfeed from an NNTP server, a simple NNTP cache, three Warhammer Online add-ons, and a Talisman calculator for Wahammer Online), as my job at a mostly closed source company raises enough challenges to occupy all of the time I have for programming. However, Zed Shaw really tempts me to make time to get involved in open source, especia…

That's because I haven't been in a really good flame war with a worthy opponent since the old usenet days.

That's easily the most bizarre motivation I've heard to get into open source(!) :-)

Re: A conversation about open source licenses

#14

Post by bnoordhuis » Sun, May 15, 2011, 12:12 PM UTC

piotrSikora wrote: post #7

http-parser is based on parsers from mongrel and/or nginx (at least in parts), yet the LICENSE file says Joyent, Inc. and other Node contributors. ... No mention of the original copyright holders ( Zed Shaw and/or Igor Sysoev ) tsk tsk

There isn't a shred of the original mongrel parser left. I'm not 100% sure but http-parser looks more like it's inspired by nginx than that it actually contains nginx code.

Disclosure: I know both http-parser and nginx fairly well. I'm one of the 'other Node contributors'. :-)

Re: A conversation about open source licenses

#15

Post by chapel » Sun, May 15, 2011, 12:31 PM UTC

piotrSikora wrote: post #12

chapel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but what is the fun in that? If it was rewritten, with all new code, why would there need to be attribution?

Ryan said that the current version uses nginx's URL parser, so clearly not everything is new code.

Here you go: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2549813

Re: A conversation about open source licenses

#16

Post by piotrSikora » Sun, May 15, 2011, 12:46 PM UTC

bnoordhuis wrote: post #14

piotrSikora wrote: post #7

http-parser is based on parsers from mongrel and/or nginx (at least in parts), yet the LICENSE file says Joyent, Inc. and other Node contributors. ... No mention of the original copyright holders ( Zed Shaw and/or Igor Sysoev ) tsk tsk

There isn't a shred of the original mongrel parser left. I'm not 100% sure but http-parser looks more like it's inspired by nginx than that it actually contains nginx code. Disclosure: I know both http-parser and nginx fairly well. I'm one of the 'other Node contributors'. :-)

But it was Ryan who said that it does: http://twitter.com/#!/ryah/status/69620659650699264

Re: A conversation about open source licenses

#17

Post by stcredzero » Sun, May 15, 2011, 3:43 PM UTC

petercooper wrote: post #13

tzs wrote: post #11

I haven't done much open source (all I've got out there is a thing to suck a small newsfeed from an NNTP server, a simple NNTP cache, three Warhammer Online add-ons, and a Talisman calculator for Wahammer Online), as my job at a mostly closed source company raises enough challenges to occupy all of the time I have for programming. However, Zed Shaw really tempts me to make time to get involved in open source, especia…

That's because I haven't been in a really good flame war with a worthy opponent since the old usenet days. That's easily the most bizarre motivation I've heard to get into open source(!) :-)

Yes, we all know that Open Source is the place to be to get away from those pesky flamewars.

Re: A conversation about open source licenses

#18

Post by tmcw » Sun, May 15, 2011, 3:46 PM UTC

This "Zed" guy has a "oh, cool" to "I WILL FIGHT YOU" transition time of about five minutes. It's sad that his short temper colors his excellent work so much. [1] Especially when this started with a compliment [0]...

[0]: https://twitter.com/ryah/status/69554939323629568

[1]: Oh crap, now Zed Shaw's gonna challenge me to a duel.

Re: A conversation about open source licenses

#19

Post by blago » Sun, May 15, 2011, 4:59 PM UTC

asomiv wrote: post #6

reinhardt wrote: post #5

Can someone explain what was the fuss about ? So Zed was cool to relicense it thinking it was about some project X and got pissed off when he learned it was going to be (also) used in project Y ? WTF ?!

It looks like Zed is pissed about Ryan trying to hide his intentions to profit from Zed's work through Node.js (Node.js has commercial activities attached to it). Zed is not pissed about whether or not Ryan actually profits from it, only the way he appears to be doing it in a sneaky way.

Node.js had no comercial activities in Nov 2009. In fact, this exchange happened right after JSConf 2009 which is when the world at large learned about node.

Re: A conversation about open source licenses

#20

Post by spoondan » Sun, May 15, 2011, 5:11 PM UTC

This feels like a simple misunderstanding. I think Ryan just assumed that Zed knew they were already talking about Node.js. With that assumption in mind, when Ryan wrote, "this is included in some of my other projects," he really meant, "this is also included in some of my other projects." That seems a more likely interpretation than Ryan trying to trick Zed into re-licensing the code.