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The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads

theintercept.com

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Re: The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads

#11

Post by ajcp »

cheezymoogle wrote: post #7

It's a shame that an escalation in civilian deaths is viewed as an evil, but that there are civilian deaths to escalate is viewed as a necessity of foreign policy.

The timeline of the article is December 2018 through September 2019, when Trump was Commander-in-Chief. Does it not make sense then that he would be more pertinent to the story? I think it provides the correct historical context when it makes sense in the reporting.

And why would anyone need to draw their "own conclusions" when Greenwald has been very explicit as to why he left.

Re: The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads

#12

Post by idoubtit »

kstenerud wrote: post #8
082349872349872 wrote: post #2

The death squad sort of thing is part of why I believe Smith is an unreliable narrator in 1984. Real regimes don't mildly torture problematic people and then keep them around at length, as if they were boys[1] enforcing a boarding school hierarchy, instead they get rid of them shortly and cheaply, for instance by one-way helicopter rides. [1] although the very puerile "it's no fun ruling unless the ruled know you're…

> Real regimes don't mildly torture problematic people and then keep them around at length, as if they were boys[1] enforcing a boarding school hierarchy That's precisely how it's done in China and North Korea, as well as many other places, and almost every terror regime in history. It's also used in America whenever prosecutors / prison operators want to "send a message." There's great value in keeping a population…

And that's nothing new. One of the most famous examples in History is Caesar's cruelty act when the Gaul was almost totally conquered. He wanted to discourage the few inhabitants that may rebel against Rome's authority, so he "resolved to deter others by inflicting an exemplary punishment on these. Accordingly he cut off the hands of those who had borne arms against him." Thousand of men were mutilated and scattered across Gaul to send this terrifying message.

The main account about this is in the last chapter of Bellum Gallicum, probably written by one of his lieutenants. A translation to English: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Commentaries_on_the_Gallic_Wa... from the Latin: http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/caesar/gall8.shtml#44

Re: The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads

#13

Post by bostonsre »

It's a tough ugly war with no good options. I absolutely agree that this type of death squad summary execution crap is unacceptable. It's less reported now, but the taliban use the same type of tactics of fear to project control over the population. Leaving a power vacuum for the taliban will also lead to atrocities and medieval rules for the female population. I'm sure the military industrial complex has played some role in this war, but there really are lots of people in our military trying to be honorable and do the right thing.

Re: The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads

#14

Post by idoubtit »

BurningFrog wrote: post #6
082349872349872 wrote: post #2

The death squad sort of thing is part of why I believe Smith is an unreliable narrator in 1984. Real regimes don't mildly torture problematic people and then keep them around at length, as if they were boys[1] enforcing a boarding school hierarchy, instead they get rid of them shortly and cheaply, for instance by one-way helicopter rides. [1] although the very puerile "it's no fun ruling unless the ruled know you're…

Maybe Orwell's point was that you don't need the death squads to manage tyranny.

Orwell is not subtle enough for this. In "1984" (spoiler), the tyranny wins because they manage to torture the main characters so much that their spirits were permanently broken. If memory serves right, that was the end of the story.

For a classical tyranny were deaths squads are almost never necessary, because mass control is extremely efficient, "Brave New World" is better suited.

Re: The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads

#15

Post by AaronFriel »

cheezymoogle wrote: post #7

It's a shame that an escalation in civilian deaths is viewed as an evil, but that there are civilian deaths to escalate is viewed as a necessity of foreign policy.

From the article, it appears these death squads and their attacks occurred primarily during the Trump administration, as a result of a shift in policy: "Pompeo, then-director of the CIA, indicated that the agency, too, would pursue a more hawkish posture. The CIA, he said, “must be aggressive, vicious, unforgiving, relentless." And:

"The period in which The Intercept documented the escalation of violence in Wardak falls neatly between the first round of formal U.S.-Taliban talks in late 2018 and the signing of the Doha agreement early this year."

I can hardly say I know enough to clear Bush or Biden of using death squads, but it does seem like the major escalation and change in tactics occurred between January 21, 2017 and today.

Re: The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads

#17

Post by ahelwer »

The USA does not promote peace nor democracy. This is not the result of good intentions gone awry. This is exactly what is intended.

We really have learned nothing from Vietnam. There, too, unrestricted murder of children was justified as removing future enemies.

Re: The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads

#18

Post by realjohng »

Actions like these damage American moral authority in the region, and frankly within the American populace as well.

I often wonder where passionate distrust of the government has emerged from in recent years, and it is probably things like this which disillusion readers.

Re: The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads

#19

Post by ahelwer »

realjohng wrote: post #18

Actions like these damage American moral authority in the region, and frankly within the American populace as well. I often wonder where passionate distrust of the government has emerged from in recent years, and it is probably things like this which disillusion readers.

American moral authority has been dead since the Vietnam war, if not the Korean war. The sheer quantity of war crimes committed was astonishing. Most people know about My Lai, but that was just an incident which managed to break through into American awareness - it wasn't unusual, it was more like the norm.

Nobody ever faced consequences for any of it.

I gotta be honest, the idea that things like this "damage American moral authority" is just such a purely America-centric view. Americans truly have no idea how they are perceived by the rest of the world. Across the globe, polls consistently show America is viewed as the greatest threat to world peace.

Re: The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads

#20

Post by eplanit »

ahelwer wrote: post #19
realjohng wrote: post #18

Actions like these damage American moral authority in the region, and frankly within the American populace as well. I often wonder where passionate distrust of the government has emerged from in recent years, and it is probably things like this which disillusion readers.

American moral authority has been dead since the Vietnam war, if not the Korean war. The sheer quantity of war crimes committed was astonishing. Most people know about My Lai, but that was just an incident which managed to break through into American awareness - it wasn't unusual, it was more like the norm. Nobody ever faced consequences for any of it. I gotta be honest, the idea that things like this "damage America…

And yet more than a million people migrate here every year. They must not be good students of history.
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