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Understanding ProRAW

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Re: Understanding ProRAW

#11

Post by altarius »

hughes wrote: post #7
hughes wrote: post #6

If a mirrorless digital camera company ever made their software anywhere near as good as this, or if Apple ever brought their software expertise to a device with a full-frame format sensor and lens mount, they would absolutely dominate that market.

Are there even any camera companies that even have ambitions of reaching a level like this?

AFAIK a good chunk of digital camera processing is still done in ASIC/hardware and mindshift to GPU/CPU SIMD/software will take time, so it will probably be a while until camera manufacturers even begin to catch up.

That said, Olympus does a couple computational photography approaches (handheld multishot high res) and Fuji recently introduced in-camera HDR - but I tried neither.

Re: Understanding ProRAW

#12

Post by 67868018 »

altarius wrote: post #11
hughes wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there even any camera companies that even have ambitions of reaching a level like this?

AFAIK a good chunk of digital camera processing is still done in ASIC/hardware and mindshift to GPU/CPU SIMD/software will take time, so it will probably be a while until camera manufacturers even begin to catch up. That said, Olympus does a couple computational photography approaches (handheld multishot high res) and Fuji recently introduced in-camera HDR - but I tried neither.

Olympus is dead now, though

Re: Understanding ProRAW

#13

Post by lmilcin »

I find people misunderstand what RAW is about and what and who it is for.

If you think your pictures are better, you are deluding yourself the same way audiophiles moan about qualities of their high end, thousand dollar per feet audio cables.

I use RAW files and full manual because I have an actual workflow where I shoot a bunch of photos in similar setting and want to be able to create Lightroom preset and apply to all photos shot with same place, lighting and exposure.

It also sometimes saves me because when I am super clumsy and forget to calculate and adjust exposure I may get a photo that is under or overexposed a lot but for some reason I still want to keep it.

No, it is not going to let you make better pictures. If you want to make better pictures here are some things that are infinitely more productive to achieve that:

- try to do some exercises like trying to move about, compose and visualize your shot before taking the photo,

- try another exercise and for 6 months only take a single photo whenever you see an occasion to make photos,

- try another exercise and for 6 months only go about with a single primary lens (I have used original Fuji X100 to not be tempted, with great results),

- try to learn zone system. Learn to evaluate highlights and shadows and adjust your exposure without any meter. Use it to make pictures you want in lighting with extremely high dynamic range,

etc.

Camera gear and RAW are just tools and will not make your pictures better.

Re: Understanding ProRAW

#14

Post by unicornporn »

So much confusion. ProRAW is not raw because it stores demosaiced (not raw) data. ProRAW is good ole Linear DNG[1] and it has been around forever. However, it's very cool we now have real-time HDR merged linear captures. This has been possible post shot[2].

Lastly, I'm not sure why Apple chose to go with RAW (not raw), because that's how them n00bs spell it out. Raw is not an abbreviation.

[1] http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/linear.htm

[2] https://jcelaya.github.io/hdrmerge/

Re: Understanding ProRAW

#15

Post by sandofsky »

1-6 wrote: post #9

"Understanding RAW" I was reading this article thinking, "I should have bought an iPhone 12 Pro." But then taking a step back, I think there's an Adobe Lightroom for Mobile app which allows you to take photos with DNG file format: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-cc/using/capture-photos-mo... ProRAW just seems like a container format which includes all the additional Apple goodness which comes from computational pho…

They're both DNG files, but there's a very big difference in what they contain. It's explained in the article.

Re: Understanding ProRAW

#16

Post by akuma73 »

altarius wrote: post #11
hughes wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there even any camera companies that even have ambitions of reaching a level like this?

AFAIK a good chunk of digital camera processing is still done in ASIC/hardware and mindshift to GPU/CPU SIMD/software will take time, so it will probably be a while until camera manufacturers even begin to catch up. That said, Olympus does a couple computational photography approaches (handheld multishot high res) and Fuji recently introduced in-camera HDR - but I tried neither.

They should drop their custom ASICs and just stick a Qualcomm Snapdragon as a replacement. They could use Android and create a platform with an app store with APIs to access their sensor. Opening up the hardware in this standard way to developers would really add a lot of value to their cameras.

I have no idea why they haven't done this already.

Re: Understanding ProRAW

#17

Post by lmilcin »

hughes wrote: post #6

If a mirrorless digital camera company ever made their software anywhere near as good as this, or if Apple ever brought their software expertise to a device with a full-frame format sensor and lens mount, they would absolutely dominate that market.

iPhones make good photos because they stand out from competition. People look at them and see they are different. Soon everybody is going to be fed up with dramatic lighting, extended dynamic range because competition will be doing the same.

Good photos stand the test of time because they are interesting, not because they have pumped colors and HDR.

Re: Understanding ProRAW

#18

Post by sandofsky »

unicornporn wrote: post #14

So much confusion. ProRAW is not raw because it stores demosaiced (not raw) data. ProRAW is good ole Linear DNG[1] and it has been around forever . However, it's very cool we now have real-time HDR merged linear captures. This has been possible post shot[2]. Lastly, I'm not sure why Apple chose to go with RAW (not raw), because that's how them n00bs spell it out. Raw is not an abbreviation. [1] http://www.barrypearso…

Are you referring to confusion in the article, or among users?

Everyone spells it with all caps. Browse DPReview for a bit. "RAW" is just the convention, even though it makes no sense.

Re: Understanding ProRAW

#19

Post by [deleted] »

unicornporn wrote: post #14

So much confusion. ProRAW is not raw because it stores demosaiced (not raw) data. ProRAW is good ole Linear DNG[1] and it has been around forever . However, it's very cool we now have real-time HDR merged linear captures. This has been possible post shot[2]. Lastly, I'm not sure why Apple chose to go with RAW (not raw), because that's how them n00bs spell it out. Raw is not an abbreviation. [1] http://www.barrypearso…

[deleted]

Re: Understanding ProRAW

#20

Post by srsm »

akuma73 wrote: post #16
altarius wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK a good chunk of digital camera processing is still done in ASIC/hardware and mindshift to GPU/CPU SIMD/software will take time, so it will probably be a while until camera manufacturers even begin to catch up. That said, Olympus does a couple computational photography approaches (handheld multishot high res) and Fuji recently introduced in-camera HDR - but I tried neither.

They should drop their custom ASICs and just stick a Qualcomm Snapdragon as a replacement. They could use Android and create a platform with an app store with APIs to access their sensor. Opening up the hardware in this standard way to developers would really add a lot of value to their cameras. I have no idea why they haven't done this already.

This is a huge area for disruption IMO. Using a Snapdragon chip plus an FPGA/ASIC to translate SLVS-EC to MPI and buying a sensor would allow for a camera with much better performance characteristics possibly even at a lower price, and the programmable hardware would open up an insane amount of possibilities and allow for incredible value.

If anyone wants to consider doing this, shoot me a message.

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