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The People vs. Goldman Sachs

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Re: The People vs. Goldman Sachs

#11

Post by emanuer »

Goldman Sachs is amazing. I follow articles about them since a few years and I must say, the ingenuity with which they act is inspiring, scary, terrifying...

Another evil master piece of them may have been the food market. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/27/how_goldman...

The same dynamics behind the foot price bubble may cause the current surge in gas-prices http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2315894

Also the Author of the article (Taibbi) wrote a book about the bubble: http://www.amazon.com/Griftopia-Machines-Vampire-Breaking-Am...

All the information I have is obviously very biased towards blaming Goldman Sachs, yet if their involvement in the extreme price hikes in foot, oil, housing markets is only half as bad as it seems, they are the single biggest source for the worlds macroeconomic problems.

This is very disturbing to me, as I see myself as a strong advocate of the free market hypothesis. I guess if Goldman's involvement turned out to be as bad as I fear, it can be explained by them finding holes in the regulation where they were the only dominant player. They were able to act (as in the foot market) with no one challenging their doings. No regulation, no competition meaning they were able to game the system as they pleased.

Somehow I hope all this information about Goldman's involvement is correct, because it would give clear directions on how to fix the macroeconomic problems the world (not just America) faces. It would clearly show how to adjust the legal system, enforcement.

Re: The People vs. Goldman Sachs

#12

Post by coolgeek »

pstack wrote: post #8
johng wrote: post #2

Is anyone else as shocked as I am that Goldman has barely had a slap on the wrist for this stuff?

No and if you are legitimately shocked, then you don't understand to what extent the government is infiltrated with Goldman Sachs-men. Goldman Sachs' Revolving Door : http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20001981-10391695.html "A CBS News analysis of the revolving door between Goldman and government reveals at least four dozen former employees, lobbyists or advisers at the highest reaches of power both in Washington…

It's called regulatory capture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

Also note the closely related concept of intellectual capture, which is why nobody in the government or the media (except Taibbi and a handful of others) is pissed off about this.

Re: The People vs. Goldman Sachs

#14

Post by jimbokun »

emanuer wrote: post #11

Goldman Sachs is amazing. I follow articles about them since a few years and I must say, the ingenuity with which they act is inspiring, scary, terrifying... Another evil master piece of them may have been the food market. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/27/how_goldman... The same dynamics behind the foot price bubble may cause the current surge in gas-prices http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2315894…

"This is very disturbing to me, as I see myself as a strong advocate of the free market hypothesis."

I always thought the free market hypothesis assumed the free and open flow of accurate information.

Goldman simply lied and conned billions out of their customers and the United States tax payers. They are a criminal enterprise whose ring leaders must be put behind bars if the rule of law means anything.

Free enterprise has nothing to do with it.

Re: The People vs. Goldman Sachs

#15

Post by jimbokun »

shawnee_ wrote: post #3
johng wrote: post #2

Is anyone else as shocked as I am that Goldman has barely had a slap on the wrist for this stuff?

Society, in general, doesn't "get" that white-collar crime like the mortgage securities fraud is the engine that powers blue collar crime. The problem is that society in general spends far too much time and effort and money harassing blue collar criminals and keeping them locked up in a system that will never "fix" them. Society needs to make a conscious and concerted effort to prosecute white collar criminals -- to…

Of course society gets this.

Ask any random sampling people on the street if they agree with your argument, the vast majority will say yes.

The only people who seem to strongly disagree are those in Obama's Department of "Justice".

Re: The People vs. Goldman Sachs

#16

Post by djnliung »

jimbokun wrote: post #14
emanuer wrote: post #11

Goldman Sachs is amazing. I follow articles about them since a few years and I must say, the ingenuity with which they act is inspiring, scary, terrifying... Another evil master piece of them may have been the food market. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/27/how_goldman... The same dynamics behind the foot price bubble may cause the current surge in gas-prices http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2315894…

"This is very disturbing to me, as I see myself as a strong advocate of the free market hypothesis." I always thought the free market hypothesis assumed the free and open flow of accurate information. Goldman simply lied and conned billions out of their customers and the United States tax payers. They are a criminal enterprise whose ring leaders must be put behind bars if the rule of law means anything. Free enterpri…

The point is that the "free flow of accurate information" is a fantasy and it seems that liars are rewarded by the market, increasingly so in markets with less regulation.

If "simply" lying is all it takes to steal billions (and not be punished for it), then the free market is stunningly ill equipped to deal with reality and is just a charade to allow a few wealthy people to rob the rest of society.

Re: The People vs. Goldman Sachs

#17

Post by jimbokun »

djnliung wrote: post #16
jimbokun wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is very disturbing to me, as I see myself as a strong advocate of the free market hypothesis." I always thought the free market hypothesis assumed the free and open flow of accurate information. Goldman simply lied and conned billions out of their customers and the United States tax payers. They are a criminal enterprise whose ring leaders must be put behind bars if the rule of law means anything. Free enterpri…

The point is that the "free flow of accurate information" is a fantasy and it seems that liars are rewarded by the market, increasingly so in markets with less regulation. If "simply" lying is all it takes to steal billions (and not be punished for it), then the free market is stunningly ill equipped to deal with reality and is just a charade to allow a few wealthy people to rob the rest of society.

The legal system is supposed to deal with the "simply lying" part.

Ever notice how over the top SEC filings are in detailing every single thing that could possibly go wrong? That is because corporations can be sued for keeping information from their shareholders, and they want to play it safe.

So yes, a free market without a legal system to punish frauds and cons is stunningly ill equipped, indeed.

Re: The People vs. Goldman Sachs

#18

Post by [deleted] »

socillion wrote: post #7
johng wrote: post #2

Is anyone else as shocked as I am that Goldman has barely had a slap on the wrist for this stuff?

say what you will about Zero Hedge, but I find it to be an invaluable site. The comments are utter crap, and a lot of the stories are selectively chosen/biased in other ways, but the same is true of the Wall Street Journal and other mainstream news sources - I find it to be an extremely valuable counterpoint. No, I am not surprised.

[deleted]

Re: The People vs. Goldman Sachs

#19

Post by phlux »

socillion wrote: post #7
johng wrote: post #2

Is anyone else as shocked as I am that Goldman has barely had a slap on the wrist for this stuff?

say what you will about Zero Hedge, but I find it to be an invaluable site. The comments are utter crap, and a lot of the stories are selectively chosen/biased in other ways, but the same is true of the Wall Street Journal and other mainstream news sources - I find it to be an extremely valuable counterpoint. No, I am not surprised.

Dammit, I accidentally downvoted you when I meant to upvote - stupid phone.

Yet, another thimg I hate about the comment system, one cant change their vote.

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