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Urgent appeal to Paul Graham, etc.: Please help kickstart Common Lisp revolution

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Re: Urgent appeal to Paul Graham, etc.: Please help kickstart Common Lisp revolution

#11

Post by Hexstream »

r-w wrote: post #10
Hexstream wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser is mostly oriented towards people who understand the value of Common Lisp. Thank you.

I understand its value as well as I believe I need to in order to do good work. I'm sure you hold beliefs that are different from mine, and I think that diversity--and the fact that we can talk about this stuff honestly and respectfully--is what makes our industry great.

I am creating tons of Common Lisp community resources that definitely help attract a more diverse audience to Common Lisp, incidentally. (Not everyone is comfortable with the "pop up in chat and ask experts" model.)

My CV offers a lot of pertinent details about my work: https://cv.hexstream.expert/

Re: Urgent appeal to Paul Graham, etc.: Please help kickstart Common Lisp revolution

#13

Post by Hexstream »

bobthebuilders wrote: post #12

Is.... this a joke? This just seems like shameless self promotion of no real value.

This is dead serious.

Do you find the idea of funding Common Lisp Open Source abhorrent? Because that is the primary focus of my work and my life.

Do you think this would have more intrinsic value if someone else promoted it for me? And I have never understood the hate against relevant self-promotion. Why don't you want value creators to promote their work themselves?

Re: Urgent appeal to Paul Graham, etc.: Please help kickstart Common Lisp revolution

#14

Post by bobthebuilders »

Hexstream wrote: post #13
bobthebuilders wrote: post #12

Is.... this a joke? This just seems like shameless self promotion of no real value.

This is dead serious. Do you find the idea of funding Common Lisp Open Source abhorrent? Because that is the primary focus of my work and my life. Do you think this would have more intrinsic value if someone else promoted it for me? And I have never understood the hate against relevant self-promotion. Why don't you want value creators to promote their work themselves?

No and no. If someone else promoted it for you, I still would've flagged it as spam.

The problem with self promotion is not with you, or any one in particular, but in a tragedy of the commons. I don't want HN to be filled up with hundreds of requests of self-promotion.

Re: Urgent appeal to Paul Graham, etc.: Please help kickstart Common Lisp revolution

#15

Post by fermienrico »

Hexstream wrote: post #9
fermienrico wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be a race car driver to debunk a sales man trying to tell you "This is the best car in the world!". My advice to you is to be humble, you're clearly passionate about Lisp and turn that into a positive thing. Saying Lisp is the best language in the world is a sweeping statement, something a snake oil salesman would put across.

Common Lisp really IS the best programming language in the world, though. This is a statement of fact. We could do a better job of proving it and demonstrating it to the world, and it would be easier to do it faster with funding.

I wish you all the best convincing people its the best language in the world.

Re: Urgent appeal to Paul Graham, etc.: Please help kickstart Common Lisp revolution

#16

Post by Rochus »

bobthebuilders wrote: post #12

Is.... this a joke? This just seems like shameless self promotion of no real value.

Not so "dead serious": As an alternative to the "Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster" the "Church of Lambda" could be founded (see https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/churches-religious...). To find believers and members should not be a problem, one might think.

Re: Urgent appeal to Paul Graham, etc.: Please help kickstart Common Lisp revolution

#17

Post by Rochus »

Hexstream wrote: post #9
fermienrico wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be a race car driver to debunk a sales man trying to tell you "This is the best car in the world!". My advice to you is to be humble, you're clearly passionate about Lisp and turn that into a positive thing. Saying Lisp is the best language in the world is a sweeping statement, something a snake oil salesman would put across.

Common Lisp really IS the best programming language in the world, though. This is a statement of fact. We could do a better job of proving it and demonstrating it to the world, and it would be easier to do it faster with funding.

"Lisp isn't a language, it's a building material." (Alan Kay, see e.g. http://www.paulgraham.com/quotes.html?viewfullsite=1).

I first used Lisp more than thirty years ago (back then on the VAX), but I still don't understand why it is supposed to be the "best programming language" (as some people continue to claim). It is not even obvious to me how to recognize a programming language as the "best" one. The advantage of the simple syntax is paid with several disadvantages. Praising Lisp for its simple syntax is like praising a protein for its simple structure consisting only of a chain of amino acids.

Re: Urgent appeal to Paul Graham, etc.: Please help kickstart Common Lisp revolution

#18

Post by Hexstream »

Rochus wrote: post #17
Hexstream wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common Lisp really IS the best programming language in the world, though. This is a statement of fact. We could do a better job of proving it and demonstrating it to the world, and it would be easier to do it faster with funding.

"Lisp isn't a language, it's a building material." (Alan Kay, see e.g. http://www.paulgraham.com/quotes.html?viewfullsite=1 ). I first used Lisp more than thirty years ago (back then on the VAX), but I still don't understand why it is supposed to be the "best programming language" (as some people continue to claim). It is not even obvious to me how to recognize a programming language as the "best" one. The advantage…

Simple syntax is just one of countless crucial features.

Here is just a trivial sample: https://twitter.com/HexstreamSoft/status/1334220825281654785

Fairly extensive advocacy pieces already exist, and we need even more sophisticated ones, and better infrastructure overall, and it would be much easier to do that with proper funding.

Re: Urgent appeal to Paul Graham, etc.: Please help kickstart Common Lisp revolution

#19

Post by Rochus »

Hexstream wrote: post #18
Rochus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Lisp isn't a language, it's a building material." (Alan Kay, see e.g. http://www.paulgraham.com/quotes.html?viewfullsite=1 ). I first used Lisp more than thirty years ago (back then on the VAX), but I still don't understand why it is supposed to be the "best programming language" (as some people continue to claim). It is not even obvious to me how to recognize a programming language as the "best" one. The advantage…

Simple syntax is just one of countless crucial features. Here is just a trivial sample: https://twitter.com/HexstreamSoft/status/1334220825281654785 Fairly extensive advocacy pieces already exist, and we need even more sophisticated ones, and better infrastructure overall, and it would be much easier to do that with proper funding.

It does not help to "prove" an assertion by making further unsubstantiated assertions.

Why is Lisp the "best programming language"? How can we recognize a programming language as the "best" one at all? Why do "we need even more sophisticated" extensive advocacy pieces? What "better infrastructure" is required for what purpose?

Re: Urgent appeal to Paul Graham, etc.: Please help kickstart Common Lisp revolution

#20

Post by Rochus »

Hexstream wrote: post #7
fermienrico wrote: post #6

On the fundraiser page: https://github.com/sponsors/Hexstream > Common Lisp is the best programming language in the world! Why? What an absurd, arrogant, misinformed and misguided claim.

I would like to review your Common Lisp credentials.

A very bold claim considering https://cv.hexstream.expert/#education.

"Computer Programming at Collège de Bois-de-Boulogne (completed 4 terms out of 6) 2003 – 2005 (2 years) Montréal, Québec, Canada

Grade: Best of my class in programming

[...]

I introduced and explained the concept of an event loop to one of my computer science teachers.

I dropped out for personal reasons.", see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coll%C3%A8ge_de_Bois-de-Boulog...

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