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Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

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Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#12
If I thought there was a good chance of having the work upstreamed so that a mainline Linux kernel would eventually work on these computers, maybe.

In my experience, there are not many ARM SoCs that have mainline support, even some of the Raspberry Pi boards don't, and they're some of the most popular ARM SoCs used for Linux.

A lot of these projects get to the stage where a forked kernel will run on the SoC, but then support and attention peters out when it comes upgrading the fork or getting the work into mainline Linux because a new and better ARM SoC will be released, and then that requires the same amount of work on a new Linux fork. Since each ARM SoC released is a unique hardware configuration, a lot of this work will be for naught when Apple releases new SoCs that require the same amount of work, or even more work, to get Linux running on them.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#15
post #11

Keep in mind that something as fundamental as the GPU driver wouldn't be available even they managed to get Linux up and running. And the M1 GPU is Apple's full custom GPU. Even if someone tried to reverse engineer a driver, it would take decades.

He seems relatively optimistic about getting a GPU driver going: https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1333126014910701568

I don't think it'd take decades. Nouveau was pretty ok after like 5 years, wasn't it?

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can turn off all of the secure boot features. Booting other OSs is most likely coming.

Well, from what I understand its less "turn off secure boot features" and more "create/add a signature for your custom code to secure boot". https://mobile.twitter.com/never_released/status/13263157410... I can't find a primary source for the comment in the tweet, but it seems widely regarded as true at this point, so fingers crossed it pans out that way.

Hm, interesting. I can't seem to find my source anylonger either. The wording "kernel" does suggest to me that this is about a check a bootloader performs. If you were to boot another OS, you'd probably have a different boot loader as well.

This tweet https://twitter.com/never_released/status/133243677102043545... from the same author suggests M1 is "not any more locked down than [...] Intel", so I'm not fully sure about the technical details, but in the end you should be able to boot your own code.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#17

Wait, did Apple actually add an option for unsigned boot on M1? I remember their WWDC overview saying they were only going to have either iPhone-style latest-version-only or any-version options, and them later saying they'd only be supporting virtualization. If they have an owner override for the secure boot on M1, then that's absolutely fantastic, and I suppose puts more support around Apple's assertions that Micros…

Yes, you can use recovery mode to set the ‘permissive’ security policy, which “Does not enforce any requirements on the bootable operating system”.

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchl82829c17/...

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#18

Wait, did Apple actually add an option for unsigned boot on M1? I remember their WWDC overview saying they were only going to have either iPhone-style latest-version-only or any-version options, and them later saying they'd only be supporting virtualization. If they have an owner override for the secure boot on M1, then that's absolutely fantastic, and I suppose puts more support around Apple's assertions that Micros…

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/10686/?time...

Reduced security allows you to run any version of macOS, including the versions that are no longer signed by Apple.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#19

If I thought there was a good chance of having the work upstreamed so that a mainline Linux kernel would eventually work on these computers, maybe. In my experience, there are not many ARM SoCs that have mainline support, even some of the Raspberry Pi boards don't, and they're some of the most popular ARM SoCs used for Linux. A lot of these projects get to the stage where a forked kernel will run on the SoC, but then…

Wouldn't device tree solve (or at least mitigate) this problem somewhat? e.g. most broadcom chips have the same I2C hardware block, just mapped to a different memory address.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#20
post #11

Keep in mind that something as fundamental as the GPU driver wouldn't be available even they managed to get Linux up and running. And the M1 GPU is Apple's full custom GPU. Even if someone tried to reverse engineer a driver, it would take decades.

Maybe Apple can provide some blobs? Like the closed Nvidia drivers
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