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Bitcoin app rejected by Apple

bitcoin.org

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Re: Bitcoin app rejected by Apple

#11

Post by jerf »

jnhnum1 wrote: post #4
thinkcomp wrote: post #2

This really should not be a surprise to anyone. If Bitcoin is not already illegal (and I have reason to believe it is due to most states' money transmitter laws), it's almost guaranteed that it will be soon.

If this is illegal, then I think there's a freedom of speech issue here given that essentially the protocol is just sending messages (with no copyright infringement or anything like that) to peers... Edit: of course, you could say the same about other digital transmission of currency, but it seems different due to bitcoin not being tied directly to any "real currency". Then again, IANAL.

"just sending messages"

With this message, I hereby transfer to jnhnum the sum of $12.54 out of my checking account.

(Translation, since that's probably a bit subtle to just throw out there: In the process of abstracting money transfers as "just sending messages" your abstraction has leaked critically important details. There's more to money transfers than "just messages", and it is precisely those differences that are why you will not be finding $12.54 from my bank account in your account as a result of this "message" that I have just sent. Your abstraction is not a good one for any purpose, practical or rhetorical.)

Re: Bitcoin app rejected by Apple

#12

Post by grimen »

Apple pisses me off for real. Google should see this as an opportunity to once again show iOS is a too limited platform. It's not like Bitcoin will die at this stage, and Androids already passed iPhone - another reason to not get an iPhone.

Re: Bitcoin app rejected by Apple

#13

Post by BinaryAcid »

thinkcomp wrote: post #2

This really should not be a surprise to anyone. If Bitcoin is not already illegal (and I have reason to believe it is due to most states' money transmitter laws), it's almost guaranteed that it will be soon.

Illegal like bittorrent and file sharing? We have seen how effective that is.

Re: Bitcoin app rejected by Apple

#14

Post by trotsky »

jnhnum1 wrote: post #4
thinkcomp wrote: post #2

This really should not be a surprise to anyone. If Bitcoin is not already illegal (and I have reason to believe it is due to most states' money transmitter laws), it's almost guaranteed that it will be soon.

If this is illegal, then I think there's a freedom of speech issue here given that essentially the protocol is just sending messages (with no copyright infringement or anything like that) to peers... Edit: of course, you could say the same about other digital transmission of currency, but it seems different due to bitcoin not being tied directly to any "real currency". Then again, IANAL.

Also, conspiracy is just two dudes talking.

Re: Bitcoin app rejected by Apple

#15

Post by weavejester »

thinkcomp wrote: post #2

This really should not be a surprise to anyone. If Bitcoin is not already illegal (and I have reason to believe it is due to most states' money transmitter laws), it's almost guaranteed that it will be soon.

I doubt Bitcoin will be made illegal. By itself, the Bitcoin network is just a mechanism for passing around signed messages and calculating hash values. It would be difficult to outlaw that without running into constitutional free speech issues.

Where Bitcoin might run into trouble is the trading of bitcoins for dollars or commodities. Depending on how bitcoins are classified legally, there may be additional regulations that sellers or buyers of bitcoins need to adhere to. However, because bitcoins are so different to any existing currency or commodity, I think we'll need to wait for a court to decide whether they fall under any existing regulation, if at all.

Re: Bitcoin app rejected by Apple

#16

Post by jarin »

thinkcomp wrote: post #2

This really should not be a surprise to anyone. If Bitcoin is not already illegal (and I have reason to believe it is due to most states' money transmitter laws), it's almost guaranteed that it will be soon.

By that argument, EVE Online's PLEX should be illegal as well, as it is transferrable and exchangeable for something of monetary value (a subscription).

Re: Bitcoin app rejected by Apple

#17

Post by nhaehnle »

fleitz wrote: post #10
sirlancer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When does money start to become "real currency"? Numbers on an ATM machine are only representative of the physical currency that I can extract from a bank. A message on an IM window could essentially mean the same thing: "Thanks for helping me move my couch, I'll get that $20 over to you by tomorrow". So at what point does the rubber meet the asphalt and how will Apple enforce this down the road?

We don't have 'money' anymore, we have currency. USD is not money, it's currency and fiat currency at that. US Dollars are backed by an obligation to give you more US Dollars in the future. If you had liberty dollars then you'd have money. To directly answer your question, money becomes currency when you transfer representations of value instead of value. (eg. A piece of paper obliging the barer to receive something…

Wikipedia defines money as:

"Money is any object or record, that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given country or socio-economic context."

This is in line with most actual usage of the word. Bottom line, you're just playing silly semantic games. It is useful to understand the differences between different types of money, but claiming that something is "not really money" based on your own private definition of money does not add to the discussion.

Re: Bitcoin app rejected by Apple

#18

Post by orangecat »

sebkomianos wrote: post #8

On the very same topic udibr states it's not clear whether it will be accepted by Google for Android as they removed tethering apps quite recently.

Technically the tethering apps weren't "removed", they're just hidden for phones on US wireless carriers. (They show up fine on my rooted Nook Color). While this shows the appalling degree of control we've ceded to the carriers, they shouldn't have any particular reason to block bitcoin apps.

Re: Bitcoin app rejected by Apple

#19

Post by nextparadigms »

This is why having just one app store sucks, and I'm not just referring to Apple here. It could've been Google or Microsoft, too (MS intends to have one in win8 too). But why should any of them be the moral police for everything?

I was thinking of Mondonet and mesh networks today. What if they could reject such mesh network apps from their stores because the Government asked them behind the scenes to do so? That wouln't be very good for us.

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