Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

PHP 8

php.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 273 posts

Re: PHP 8

#11

Post by stevekemp »

sleavey wrote: post #6

> 0 == 'foobar' // true That's PHP7 behaviour that's updated in 8 to return false. I'm not a PHP basher, I really like it these days, but why the heck was that example ever evaluating to true?

'foobar' is coerced into a number, which fails for the obvious reason. So it becomes 0, which means the expression is "0 == 0".

Terrible, terrible, behaviour but there are lots of similar examples in PHP because it evolved over time rather than being designed as-is. Some of these things are being fixed over time, like this very example, others can't/won't be.

Re: PHP 8

#12

Post by tyingq »

sleavey wrote: post #6

> 0 == 'foobar' // true That's PHP7 behaviour that's updated in 8 to return false. I'm not a PHP basher, I really like it these days, but why the heck was that example ever evaluating to true?

I suspect they copied that behavior from Perl.

Re: PHP 8

#13

Post by sleavey »

stevekemp wrote: post #11
sleavey wrote: post #6

> 0 == 'foobar' // true That's PHP7 behaviour that's updated in 8 to return false. I'm not a PHP basher, I really like it these days, but why the heck was that example ever evaluating to true?

'foobar' is coerced into a number, which fails for the obvious reason. So it becomes 0, which means the expression is "0 == 0". Terrible, terrible, behaviour but there are lots of similar examples in PHP because it evolved over time rather than being designed as-is. Some of these things are being fixed over time, like this very example, others can't/won't be.

I see. This change prompts me as something that could break a lot of code running on web servers where the sysadmin updates to PHP8 assuming it will be backwards compatible. I wonder if they did any code searching to see how widely used such expressions are in the wild.

Re: PHP 8

#14

Post by DJBunnies »

sleavey wrote: post #6

> 0 == 'foobar' // true That's PHP7 behaviour that's updated in 8 to return false. I'm not a PHP basher, I really like it these days, but why the heck was that example ever evaluating to true?

== is loose type.

=== is strict.

Re: PHP 8

#15

Post by cstuder »

tyingq wrote: post #7
cstuder wrote: post #4

Apparently some of the deprecations will make this the most backward compatibility breaking version jump of PHP since V4 to V5. (Read a german interview here: https://www.heise.de/news/PHP-8-im-Experten-Check-Der-erwart... ) There's a long report on Wordpress and PHP 8 and it's not pretty: https://developer.yoast.com/blog/the-2020-wordpress-and-php-...

"There's a long report on Wordpress and PHP 8 and it's not pretty" I wonder if that's somewhat on purpose. Part of the remaining stigma with PHP is that people cite bad PHP examples from WP.

No, I think WordPress being the most installed PHP application on the net warrants the special attention to it.

https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/content_management

Re: PHP 8

#16

Post by acomjean »

belst wrote: post #9
sleavey wrote: post #6

> 0 == 'foobar' // true That's PHP7 behaviour that's updated in 8 to return false. I'm not a PHP basher, I really like it these days, but why the heck was that example ever evaluating to true?

because (int)'foobar' is 0

JavaScript and php have the === which doesn’t try casting types.

Php has good documentation with examples which I appreciate :

https://www.php.net/manual/en/language.operators.comparison....

Re: PHP 8

#17

Post by tyingq »

cstuder wrote: post #15
tyingq wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There's a long report on Wordpress and PHP 8 and it's not pretty" I wonder if that's somewhat on purpose. Part of the remaining stigma with PHP is that people cite bad PHP examples from WP.

No, I think WordPress being the most installed PHP application on the net warrants the special attention to it. https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/content_management

Not sure I understand. I'm saying the PHP team didn't cede any deprecations to Wordpress this time. Meaning no special attention.

Re: PHP 8

#18

Post by bavell »

laszlokorte wrote: post #5

Php was my first language I learned 15 years ago. On that way I really started to hate it because of all it's quirks. Many of those have been fixed and nowadays I really enjoy it again and it's my goto language for any web project. It really hits a pragmatic sweetspot. It's really easy to deploy and frameworks like symfony give you all the power like rails but without the magic.

Same here, started off with PHP around a decade ago and couldn't wait to move to another server-side language. Nowadays it's much nicer to work with (as long as you avoid the warts) and PHP 8 looks to deliver another slew of welcome upgrades.

Only downside is that there does seem to be quite a lot of (non-trivial) deprecations which is understandable but I wonder how long it'll take for 8 to percolate into production...

Re: PHP 8

#19

Post by nolok »

cstuder wrote: post #4

Apparently some of the deprecations will make this the most backward compatibility breaking version jump of PHP since V4 to V5. (Read a german interview here: https://www.heise.de/news/PHP-8-im-Experten-Check-Der-erwart... ) There's a long report on Wordpress and PHP 8 and it's not pretty: https://developer.yoast.com/blog/the-2020-wordpress-and-php-...

Reading the list of things that worry them makes it clear that it's not so much php is breaking bc than it is wordpress lack of cleaning and linting for so long catching up to them.

I mean seriously the first thing they list as a worry is that arithmetic operators will now throw an error when one (and only one) of their operand is an array or resource (eg array + array support remains, it's really int + array or string + file_descriptor, things like that). This is literally a case that makes no sense in the code ever, not one of the "php used to do something magical for us" but "php used to keep silent about this buffonery", so if your code does that you have bigger worries ...

Almost every single one of those things are easy to fix, in that it requires mostly time not much if any redesign, and almost every single one of those things are also deprecated or on their way out since at least a decade.

Re: PHP 8

#20

Post by scaladev »

stevekemp wrote: post #11
sleavey wrote: post #6

> 0 == 'foobar' // true That's PHP7 behaviour that's updated in 8 to return false. I'm not a PHP basher, I really like it these days, but why the heck was that example ever evaluating to true?

'foobar' is coerced into a number, which fails for the obvious reason. So it becomes 0, which means the expression is "0 == 0". Terrible, terrible, behaviour but there are lots of similar examples in PHP because it evolved over time rather than being designed as-is. Some of these things are being fixed over time, like this very example, others can't/won't be.

And people say C++ is a complicated language.
Post reply on HN