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Covid pushes Asia to embrace big government

asia.nikkei.com

11–20 of 95 posts

Re: Covid pushes Asia to embrace big government

#11
post #9

I don't usually go off on the deep end with conspiracies, and I don't believe COVID-19 was intentionally spread, but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government. COVID-19 didn't cause such trouble, but…

> but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government.

China, Russia and every other country has been given a wonderful blueprint for absolutely disrupting the US and really entire western order. The fact nobody seems to be talking about the national security implications of this virus and what our rivals or enemies have learned is frightening.

Can you imagine how fucked things would get if another virus struck the US right after we deal with Covid?

Re: Covid pushes Asia to embrace big government

#12
post #9

I don't usually go off on the deep end with conspiracies, and I don't believe COVID-19 was intentionally spread, but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government. COVID-19 didn't cause such trouble, but…

> but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government. China, Russia and every other country has been given a wonderful blueprint for absolutely disrupting the US and really entire western order. The fact…

Smart governments would be using this pandemic as a natural experiment on their biowarfare preparations.

Re: Covid pushes Asia to embrace big government

#13
post #9

I don't usually go off on the deep end with conspiracies, and I don't believe COVID-19 was intentionally spread, but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government. COVID-19 didn't cause such trouble, but…

Yes - while we have to be careful of making sure not to support the anti-mask/'covid is fake' hysteria because it really is a time to act in unison ... there is a 100% chance governments around the world are going to use this time to do things they might not otherwise do and we have to be careful.

And I mean good and bad governments, with good and bad ideas.

It's hard being in government, you never get to do the things you want, it's a long, compromising grind. There's no money for anything so either you raise taxes (scary), take on more debt (also scary) or print money (scary).

The conservative government in the UK and liberal government in Canada have made major green announcements, a lot of this is opportunistic politiking.

The 'Modern Monetary Theorists' ('debts don't matter' people) are definitely pushing hard at this time.

Because every central bank and government is going into full on Keynsian spending, they're likely going to want to keep on doing that, and not reverting to the 'regular economy'. Power is hard to reliquish.

In Canada, pre-covid, we saw the average house price increase in value more than the average wage in the country. That is point blank crazy. That is a weird financialisation of the economy that we don't yet understand - inflation in a fixed asset that doesn't increase productivity.

Even the US Fed said just a few days ago 'It's a New World Orders'.

People should be spooked because with all the flux and the rules being re-written there will be power grabs, and just because people think they are benevolent, doesn't mean they are. Surely, a common denominator in humanity is the propensity for people to make power grabs when they can.

Re: Covid pushes Asia to embrace big government

#14
post #9

I don't usually go off on the deep end with conspiracies, and I don't believe COVID-19 was intentionally spread, but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government. COVID-19 didn't cause such trouble, but…

Its interesting to me when Chinese govt told everyone in Jan/Feb they have the virus under control, much of the world relaxed, but its neighbours Korea/Vietnam/Taiwan/Japan all knew to ramp up response and not believe them.

Re: Covid pushes Asia to embrace big government

#15
post #9

I don't usually go off on the deep end with conspiracies, and I don't believe COVID-19 was intentionally spread, but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government. COVID-19 didn't cause such trouble, but…

> but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government. China, Russia and every other country has been given a wonderful blueprint for absolutely disrupting the US and really entire western order. The fact…

I don’t see it. What is the blueprint? Release a deadly virus? I think we have always known how bad that would be and there are international laws against it.

Re: Covid pushes Asia to embrace big government

#16
post #9

I don't usually go off on the deep end with conspiracies, and I don't believe COVID-19 was intentionally spread, but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government. COVID-19 didn't cause such trouble, but…

> but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government. China, Russia and every other country has been given a wonderful blueprint for absolutely disrupting the US and really entire western order. The fact…

> The fact nobody seems to be talking about the national security implications of this virus and what our rivals or enemies have learned is frightening

rest assure such scenarios are being heavily discussed else where besides here on HN you get downvotes for talking about "certain things", including early attempts to speculate/warn as the pandemic was unfolding back in February

Re: Covid pushes Asia to embrace big government

#17
I think it's hard to say -- something that we'll have to observe. Or maybe history has given us enough analogies, even for this different age?

The same things that make the Asian peoples compliant with societal restrictions and "big government" might also leave them vulnerable to being led astray by those same governments, or tolerant of dictatorial actions. (and not just singling out Asian cultures here -- any authority-respecting people)

The same traits that make Americans uncooperative with government mandates might be a great protection against unreasonable actions of a tyrant. Or it could be a very bad weakness in a complex, connected economy.

After reading Jared Diamond's idea about the nature of cultural traits in Guns Germs Steel (though he didn't phrase it that way exactly), I think of that often when these things come up. A country's culture, ethos, political system (quite independent from individual behavior, as individuals quickly get absorbed into national behavior) determines a lot of how they survive or resist, or adapt.

The question is whether they have the right combination of traits to get them through the slew of challenges in aggregate, over time, that life throws at them randomly, to succeed in the long run.

Re: Covid pushes Asia to embrace big government

#18
post #9

I don't usually go off on the deep end with conspiracies, and I don't believe COVID-19 was intentionally spread, but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government. COVID-19 didn't cause such trouble, but…

Right, there is opportunistic behavior, always.

Conspiracy theorists misconstrue independent opportunist agents as centrally planned competence.

They heavily overweigh competence.

Re: Covid pushes Asia to embrace big government

#19
post #9

I don't usually go off on the deep end with conspiracies, and I don't believe COVID-19 was intentionally spread, but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government. COVID-19 didn't cause such trouble, but…

"Never let a good crisis go to waste”

~ Winston Churchill

Re: Covid pushes Asia to embrace big government

#20
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I do think the needed response to fully control the spread of a virus creates perverse incentives for governments. Especially governments that would like to disrupt other countries which have cultures that don't like to be told what to do by their own government. China, Russia and every other country has been given a wonderful blueprint for absolutely disrupting the US and really entire western order. The fact…

> The fact nobody seems to be talking about the national security implications of this virus and what our rivals or enemies have learned is frightening rest assure such scenarios are being heavily discussed else where besides here on HN you get downvotes for talking about "certain things", including early attempts to speculate/warn as the pandemic was unfolding back in February

...early attempts to speculate/warn as the pandemic was unfolding back in February

Providing links to such attempts would make this argument more persuasive.

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