Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached • Hacker News Board

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#11

Post by beaner » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:38 AM UTC

mayank wrote: post #9

beaner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

> The endgame is that all energy companies will primarily be Bitcoin mining companies, feeding their excess renewable energy into the grid to power homes, etc. Or you could just skip the Bitcoin part...

I guess you could. But the presence of Bitcoin and proof-of-work actually speeds up the competition in the renewable energy space by making it more profitable than it otherwise would be. That's a good thing, it gets us to the world we want more quickly.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#12

Post by brabel » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:40 AM UTC

beaner wrote: post #7

newyankee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

> The endgame is that all energy companies will primarily be Bitcoin mining companies, feeding their excess renewable energy into the grid to power homes, etc.

What a fucking dystopia that would be.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#13

Post by beaner » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:41 AM UTC

tikej wrote: post #10

beaner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

Cool, except so-called renewable energy sources still built using non-renewable materials. There also physical limits to efficiency of energy transformation and slightly less heat loss per unit of energy with much more energy production is not exactly what climate needs right now.

Haven't heard these points before but I'm not sure that they apply to proof-of-work specifically.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#14

Post by beaner » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:42 AM UTC

brabel wrote: post #12

beaner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

> The endgame is that all energy companies will primarily be Bitcoin mining companies, feeding their excess renewable energy into the grid to power homes, etc. What a fucking dystopia that would be.

Why?

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#15

Post by vasco » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:42 AM UTC

beaner wrote: post #7

newyankee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

Or you just add financial incentives in the form of subsidies for green energy and extra tax burden for other sources, no need to involve bitcoin.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#16

Post by tsujp » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:43 AM UTC

mayank wrote: post #9

beaner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

> The endgame is that all energy companies will primarily be Bitcoin mining companies, feeding their excess renewable energy into the grid to power homes, etc. Or you could just skip the Bitcoin part...

Proof of work still has value in creating demand for excess renewable power generation in regions that can provide it, e.g. https://www.coindesk.com/chinese-city-known-for-bitcoin-mini...

Could that energy go to better (which is subjective of course) things? Sure, but if it's not and there is demand as well as excess supply it incentivises energy companies to at least _keep up_ with what they currently provide.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#17

Post by olodus » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:43 AM UTC

I haven't been keeping up with the Eth / PoS development, do we have any preliminary numbers on how much energy this switch is hoped to save?

Same goes with sharing, how much is it argued this will speed up the transaction process?

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#18

Post by viraptor » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:47 AM UTC

beaner wrote: post #14

brabel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The endgame is that all energy companies will primarily be Bitcoin mining companies, feeding their excess renewable energy into the grid to power homes, etc. What a fucking dystopia that would be.

Why?

"Price for Bitcoin is too high, no power for your home today, unless you outbid the market"

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#19

Post by adrianN » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:47 AM UTC

beaner wrote: post #7

newyankee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

There are many existing processes that basically turn energy into money. It's called energy intensive industry. So far instead of pushing for renewables, companies making their money this way were a major hindrance in clean energy investments.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#20

Post by viraptor » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:50 AM UTC

tsujp wrote: post #16

mayank wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The endgame is that all energy companies will primarily be Bitcoin mining companies, feeding their excess renewable energy into the grid to power homes, etc. Or you could just skip the Bitcoin part...

Proof of work still has value in creating demand for excess renewable power generation in regions that can provide it, e.g. https://www.coindesk.com/chinese-city-known-for-bitcoin-mini... Could that energy go to better (which is subjective of course) things? Sure, but if it's not and there is demand as well as excess supply it incentivises energy companies to at least _keep up_ with what they currently provide.

The problems with that are: 1. Newly built renewable energy goes to mining rigs, while the original demand still exists so coal mines remain. 2. Usage at peak generation means fewer reasons to build energy storage systems for quiet times (they're still handled by non-renewables).