Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#11

Post by pochamago » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 12:33 AM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #10

asciident wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very cynical take assuming retail is zero-sum. It could also be helping you find the products you need at an opportune time, increasing the value for all parties. Or based on purchase patterns, they're able to stock inventory more accurately based on predicted purchases, and save on storage and transport.

That's fair. But how much of advertising actually informs you of a new and useful product? Vs how much just tries to upsell you, convince you you want something you didn't want 5 minutes ago, or push brands that add nothing substancice? I know I'm a cynical uni bomber type, I don't expect anyone to 100% agree or for adverts to disappear. But dwhen was the last time an advert actually informed you of a product you did…

I would say yesterday, potentially. Saw an ad for totally watertight running shoes, which was not something I thought existed. Haven't looked into the product enough to buy them, but it's a good bet I will, and they would be of great utility to me.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#12

Post by thetinguy » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 12:34 AM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #2

TLDR: companies will likely shaft you as the market value for your individual dataset isn't that much, companies derive value by aggregating data over a large number of consumers.

If only there was some way a collective could pool their power to negotiate better terms.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#13

Post by grawprog » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 12:34 AM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #4

I was thinking about a related idea recently - how much is my grocery information privacy worth for me? Summed up, I'm currently saving just over 11% on all the groceries + ~7% on fuel cost by sharing that information with 5 companies. (car insurance, CC, shop card, honey, airline) I'm not attached to this, I'd rather the programs like this get destroyed. But also by stacking the offers, I believe I'm getting more va…

Sure, until that information is used to give individualized prices and other things. Or used to hide things or show you only things the algorithms decide you like....or should have according to them.

Already i've read things about hotel websites and stuff altering prices based on which device you're using to browse their site.

In a world where your personal shopping information is bought and sold and things become increasingly online, it'll become a game of individualized shopping lists and prices, individual sales. Another perfectly crafted corporate bubble for people to live under where prices, suggestions and sales are individually tailored and at the whims of people siphoning all your personal information.

I don't need my own personal omnipotent digital god dictating everything in my life. Even if it saves me a few bucks.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#14

Post by amelius » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 12:46 AM UTC

asciident wrote: post #8

LatteLazy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason I'll pay you a dollar for your data is that I'll make 2 dollars selling you shit you wouldn't have bought otherwise using it. And for me to make 2 dollars, you need to buy 20 dollars worth of shit. Shit you didn't actually want or need.

Very cynical take assuming retail is zero-sum. It could also be helping you find the products you need at an opportune time, increasing the value for all parties. Or based on purchase patterns, they're able to stock inventory more accurately based on predicted purchases, and save on storage and transport.

> It could also be helping you find the products you need at an opportune time, increasing the value for all parties.

This always comes up. But perhaps we should also ask the opposite question: what if we banned all ads, how would that affect overconsumption? It could theoretically be the best thing that ever happened to the planet.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#15

Post by jpollock » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 12:47 AM UTC

Don't we already put a price on freedom of speech? Isn't that what an non-disclosure agreement is?

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#16

Post by awinter-py » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 12:50 AM UTC

Have never understood EFF's objection to 'pay for privacy' (covered in the middle of this article). Being able to pay for privacy is better than not being able to. It creates the beginning of accountability for cos and optionality for users.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#17

Post by octoberfranklin » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 12:51 AM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #4

I was thinking about a related idea recently - how much is my grocery information privacy worth for me? Summed up, I'm currently saving just over 11% on all the groceries + ~7% on fuel cost by sharing that information with 5 companies. (car insurance, CC, shop card, honey, airline) I'm not attached to this, I'd rather the programs like this get destroyed. But also by stacking the offers, I believe I'm getting more va…

I don't mind my grocery store tracking my purchases because they can't link it to anything else about me. Granted I always pay cash (at those self-checkout machines with bill acceptors -- why can't gas stations have them?) and got a plastic rewards card without giving my phone number. So it is a little bit of work, but it works.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#18

Post by octoberfranklin » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 12:53 AM UTC

jpollock wrote: post #15

Don't we already put a price on freedom of speech? Isn't that what an non-disclosure agreement is?

NDAs will not be enforced by a court unless they are "commercially relevant and reasonable".

Unless you're a political consultant of some kind no court is going to enforce an NDA that purports to prevent you from expressing your political opinions.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#19

Post by amelius » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 12:53 AM UTC

> It’s also why we advocate strongly for laws that make privacy the default

I always wonder: didn't this use to be the case? In the 80s, could we even imagine a telco listening in on our conversations? When did things go sideways?

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#20

Post by viraptor » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:04 AM UTC

grawprog wrote: post #13

viraptor wrote: post #4

I was thinking about a related idea recently - how much is my grocery information privacy worth for me? Summed up, I'm currently saving just over 11% on all the groceries + ~7% on fuel cost by sharing that information with 5 companies. (car insurance, CC, shop card, honey, airline) I'm not attached to this, I'd rather the programs like this get destroyed. But also by stacking the offers, I believe I'm getting more va…

Sure, until that information is used to give individualized prices and other things. Or used to hide things or show you only things the algorithms decide you like....or should have according to them. Already i've read things about hotel websites and stuff altering prices based on which device you're using to browse their site. In a world where your personal shopping information is bought and sold and things become in…

It's much easier to do that for hotels than for groceries since comparison is harder. It will be quite widely known and sightly abused if your grocery chain starts doing that. The shops will always have the reference price in public after all.

The pricing difference that actually matters (moving old stock) is already mostly done without personalised data. Sales are a standard.