Danish study finds face masks provide limited protection to wearer • Hacker News Board

Re: Danish study finds face masks provide limited protection to wearer

#11

Post by eatbitseveryday » Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #10

mark_l_watson wrote: post #6

I thought that it was accepted that the main benefit was in protecting other people. I wear a mask and a transparent face shield together. I believe that this combination offers me some protection and a lot of protection for people near me, so it seems like an obvious thing to do. BTW, I find cloth masks not so comfortable, but the plastic face shield is no real additional discomfort at all.

For me the discomfort is really about my glasses that get fogged. It is much better with the FFP-3 masks than with the typical surgical ones.

Glasses don’t get as fogged if you have a surgical mask with a metal wire for the nose clamp. Fits better than a plastic insert and does not let air shoot out the top into your eyes when you exhale.

Re: Danish study finds face masks provide limited protection to wearer

#12

Post by heyoo » Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 2:36 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #6

I thought that it was accepted that the main benefit was in protecting other people. I wear a mask and a transparent face shield together. I believe that this combination offers me some protection and a lot of protection for people near me, so it seems like an obvious thing to do. BTW, I find cloth masks not so comfortable, but the plastic face shield is no real additional discomfort at all.

I also thought this was already general consensus. I.e. that face masks are used to prevent you from spreading disease, if you are infected but without symptoms.

Re: Danish study finds face masks provide limited protection to wearer

#13

Post by geofft » Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

I think it was immoral for the scientists to publish the study in the way they did, because they either knew or should have known the media (especially anti-mask propaganda outlets) would miss the following nuances:

- The point of wearing a mask is primarily to protect others, not yourself. Since we know covid has high asymptomatic infection rates, it helps control the spread of the disease for everyone to wear a mask even if they think they have no reason to stay home.

- There was no recommendation for the control group not to wear a mask.

- Very few people, percentage-wise, get covid at all, and many people are staying home, avoiding crowded events, etc. anyway. You could run a similar study demonstrating that over a month or so, a group told to wear seat belts did not get injured or die in car crashes at a higher rate than the control group, just because so few of them got in crashes at all. It would mean nothing for whether seat belts are worthwhile.

People are going to die as a result of the propaganda citing this study. I wonder if the scientists are okay with that.

There may also be an argument that it was immoral to use research money to conduct this flawed of a study in the first place.

Re: Danish study finds face masks provide limited protection to wearer

#14

Post by cletus » Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

In other news, wearing seat belts does little to protect people and animals hit by the car you're driving.

Masks are about reducing the spread of the virus to other people, not about protecting the wearer.

Re: Danish study finds face masks provide limited protection to wearer

#15

Post by toyg » Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #11

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me the discomfort is really about my glasses that get fogged. It is much better with the FFP-3 masks than with the typical surgical ones.

Glasses don’t get as fogged if you have a surgical mask with a metal wire for the nose clamp. Fits better than a plastic insert and does not let air shoot out the top into your eyes when you exhale.

You must have a very straight nose. Definitely not the case for me even with metal-souled surgicals - anything but FFP3 masks (with soft material over the nose for a tight seal) results in foggy glasses. To limit the effect with surgicals, I have to drag the clamp so much upwards that the mask is literally under my eyelids.

Re: Danish study finds face masks provide limited protection to wearer

#16

Post by giarc » Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

Regardless of the study and how well it was conducted etc, masks have never been the panacea. Taking the phrase from the airline industry, masks are part of the 'swiss cheese' model of protection. When you stack a bunch of protective measures together (mask, clean hands, distancing, staying home when sick, clean environment etc) you limit the ability of the virus to go from source to yourself. None of the measures are perfect, but when working together they hide each others flaws.

Re: Danish study finds face masks provide limited protection to wearer

#17

Post by nottorp » Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 2:44 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #6

I thought that it was accepted that the main benefit was in protecting other people. I wear a mask and a transparent face shield together. I believe that this combination offers me some protection and a lot of protection for people near me, so it seems like an obvious thing to do. BTW, I find cloth masks not so comfortable, but the plastic face shield is no real additional discomfort at all.

Yep, they're there to prevent spreading germs to others.

Surgeons don't wear them to protect themselves from the patient, but so they don't breathe over their open body.

Did that need a study?

Re: Danish study finds face masks provide limited protection to wearer

#18

Post by samfisher83 » Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 2:45 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #16

Regardless of the study and how well it was conducted etc, masks have never been the panacea. Taking the phrase from the airline industry, masks are part of the 'swiss cheese' model of protection. When you stack a bunch of protective measures together (mask, clean hands, distancing, staying home when sick, clean environment etc) you limit the ability of the virus to go from source to yourself. None of the measures ar…

It is if both people are wearing it.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-scien...

It lowers transmission by 80%. Masks help more if the person who has it wears it since they won't be transmitting the virus.

Re: Danish study finds face masks provide limited protection to wearer

#19

Post by mrfusion » Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 2:46 PM UTC

To those promoting masks to mitigate asymptomatic spread to others, I came across this study showing asymptotic spread is almost zero (1).

Is this something we have missed are there other studies that found the opposite?

(1) https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-2671

Re: Danish study finds face masks provide limited protection to wearer

#20

Post by raziel2p » Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 2:47 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #6

I thought that it was accepted that the main benefit was in protecting other people. I wear a mask and a transparent face shield together. I believe that this combination offers me some protection and a lot of protection for people near me, so it seems like an obvious thing to do. BTW, I find cloth masks not so comfortable, but the plastic face shield is no real additional discomfort at all.

I can't find a source right now but I remember reading that people were more likely to wear a mask if they think it protects themselves rather than those around you, so there's some humanitarian value in pushing that narrative even if it's not technically true.