The headline has been editorialized. While I don't agree with what the authorities did here, and believe the developer was acting in good faith, the developer created an app for buying railway tickets which charged a small fee for the tickets - the issue was that he was arrested for making money off ticket sales, as opposed to "automating forms on a website"
Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app
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Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app
#12Looks like both the railways and the developer have never heard of APIs.
Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app
#13People outside India may not realize the importance of train tickets and how difficult they can be to book. Trains are still the primary mode of transport for long distance travel and some routes get booked out in minutes after reservations open. There have been ticket mafias who mass book tickets and resell them in the black market for a huge profit. I do appreciate that the developer was solving a genuine need, so…
when i visited india, i found the "next generation" booking system to be a bit of a joke, so i don't blame this guy for trying to make it better (whether or not he was profiting). My favourite part was the "maintenance" window the website would go through every night. Which was never really indicated on the website other than vague messages/errors - but everybody knew that's what it was.
The front end definitely can be much much better; but the issue is very simply there are not enough tickets to match the demand.
"From 29 tickets booked in a day in 2002, it has reached to 13 Lakh tickets a day as of now. It is reported that the IRCTC system is currently capable of booking 15K tickets a minute online and can handle 3 Lakh concurrent users to handle any surge in demand." [1] (13 lakhs is 1.3 million)
"Of the 15 million passengers who climb aboard one of 8,520 trains each day, about 550,000 have reserved accommodations. Their journeys can start in any part of India and end in any other part, with travel times as long as 48 hours and distances up to several thousand kilometres. The challenge is to provide a reservation system that can support such a huge number-regardless of whether it’s measured by kilometres, passenger numbers, routing complexity, or simply the sheer scale of country. " [2]
If anyone has better references on the frankly astounding technical accomplishment that the CRIS Passenger Reservation system, please share.
"Passenger Reservation System (PRS): A nationwide online passenger reservation and ticketing system, developed and maintained by CRIS, was developed in C and Fortran on a Digital OpenVMS operating system using RTR (Reliable Transaction Router) as middleware. Also known as CONCERT (Country-wide Network of Computerised Enhanced Reservation and Ticketing), it interconnects the four regional computing systems (in New Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata and Chennai) into a national PRS grid. It allows a passenger anywhere to book train tickets from any station to any station. PRS handles reservations, changes, cancellations and refunds, reserving over 1.6 million seats and berths daily. Complex rules, validations and fare-computation techniques are interwoven in the application" [3]
[1] https://inc42.com/features/how-online-train-booking-ticket-p...
[2] http://www.egyankosh.ac.in/bitstream/123456789/25869/1/Unit-...
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_for_Railway_Information...
Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep. He circumvented rate-limiters that ensured that you couldn't game the booking system. The regulations very clearly prohibit this to ensure fair access. Now, one can absolutely argue about whether this form of rate limiting is the right approach, but to circumvent something that is clearly prohibited & charge money to do that is illegal. This does not mean that I think the current system is perfect OR that there…
You see similar software used in Auction sites such as eBay and the likes. Are this type of software also banned in India?
Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app
#15The headline has been editorialized. While I don't agree with what the authorities did here, and believe the developer was acting in good faith, the developer created an app for buying railway tickets which charged a small fee for the tickets - the issue was that he was arrested for making money off ticket sales, as opposed to "automating forms on a website"
Indian railways website is very slow and pathetic (so bad that there are lengthy discussion on HN about it. search for IRCTC).
Given the shortage of tickets thousands of people try to book tickets at 7am when the window to book a certain class of tickets call `Tatkal` opens. Thousands of people are trying to book the exact same tickets from say 7am and by 7:10 am all tickets get sold out.
Now, if you could prefill all the forms and just press submit you might be able to buy the tickets before others. Railways website specifically tries to not allow any kind of pre-filling. The app merely bypasses that restriction. (I have written scripts in past to do just that when I lived there).
Railways is a classic colonial government system and operates pretty much as if India is still a British colony. They have their own police force called RPF which arrested the boy under Railways act 1989 for “unauthorised business of procuring and supplying railway tickets” which the boy did not do at all. Not to mention, the railways form has a captcha so it was not even a programmatic submission. There are railways mafias in India who buy tickets by bribing railways staff and I suspect these people are responsible for getting this boy jailed as his solution helped more genuine passengers to book their tickets by undercutting the "agents".
It remains to be seen how the courts apply the standard here but it will probably take around 10-15 years for the courts to come to a verdict.
Personal Rant: When I was in India, I had the misfortune of relying on Indian railways to travel home from college. I was so pissed that I was determined to get out of India so I have to never deal with Indian railways. I had tried all possible ways to hack the booking system and had my own chrome extensions to fill up the forms.
Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
when i visited india, i found the "next generation" booking system to be a bit of a joke, so i don't blame this guy for trying to make it better (whether or not he was profiting). My favourite part was the "maintenance" window the website would go through every night. Which was never really indicated on the website other than vague messages/errors - but everybody knew that's what it was.
I think This is a very naïve, unfair take on one of the world's most sophisticated, complex, real-time booking systems that is unparalleled in what it enables. [1,2] The front end definitely can be much much better; but the issue is very simply there are not enough tickets to match the demand. "From 29 tickets booked in a day in 2002, it has reached to 13 Lakh tickets a day as of now. It is reported that the IRCTC sy…
Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
when i visited india, i found the "next generation" booking system to be a bit of a joke, so i don't blame this guy for trying to make it better (whether or not he was profiting). My favourite part was the "maintenance" window the website would go through every night. Which was never really indicated on the website other than vague messages/errors - but everybody knew that's what it was.
I think This is a very naïve, unfair take on one of the world's most sophisticated, complex, real-time booking systems that is unparalleled in what it enables. [1,2] The front end definitely can be much much better; but the issue is very simply there are not enough tickets to match the demand. "From 29 tickets booked in a day in 2002, it has reached to 13 Lakh tickets a day as of now. It is reported that the IRCTC sy…
Believe me, I know well the complexities involved in developing computerised reservation systems, but I'm not sure what is astounding about this - it's what every CRS does. 550k bookings a day is nothing extraordinary
Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
when i visited india, i found the "next generation" booking system to be a bit of a joke, so i don't blame this guy for trying to make it better (whether or not he was profiting). My favourite part was the "maintenance" window the website would go through every night. Which was never really indicated on the website other than vague messages/errors - but everybody knew that's what it was.
I think This is a very naïve, unfair take on one of the world's most sophisticated, complex, real-time booking systems that is unparalleled in what it enables. [1,2] The front end definitely can be much much better; but the issue is very simply there are not enough tickets to match the demand. "From 29 tickets booked in a day in 2002, it has reached to 13 Lakh tickets a day as of now. It is reported that the IRCTC sy…
Fortran on a Digital OpenVMS.... in 2020
Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
You see similar software used in Auction sites such as eBay and the likes. Are this type of software also banned in India?
AFAIK, for railways ticket bookings, yes; not banned but illegal. However, it's common knowledge that they exist and are used.
Broadly classifying anything not convenient to the state as illegal does not stand ground, AFAIK there is no law which prohibits automation of forms on any website?
Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app
#20coming on to the guy here, >Developing an unauthorised software bypassing e-ticketing system is an offence. Such applications defeated the purpose of having a first-come-first-serve system and benefit only a few who use the software
so why not have this functionality in the first party website in the first place?
>However, railway officials clarified Yuvrajaa bypassed the railway system and made money illegally which is a crime. He wasn’t event an authorized agent registered with IRCTC to book tickets.
did this guy take a users money, buy a ticket on his behalaf and get a commission from the railways? no. from the customer? no. all he did was make a fucking autohotkey for their website. he charged 20 rupees, thats USD $ 0.30 for hosting the service, paying for the upkeep. any of his non customers who were disadvantaged because of his service, well no shit. go and ask the government to fix their website and bring it in parity with this guy
look. this guy automated typing, refreshing, probably even bypassing captchas. on that note, why should this be "illegal" to do automation? just because they say in Tnc's? grow a pair. why should the government rate limit customers by shoving captchas?
i had the misfortune of buying a couple of tickets back in june 20 or july was it for some relatives. that was the most agonizing time of my life. random refreshes, logouts, not being able to do multiple logins, having an actual monthly limit on the number of tickets you can buy in a month, the payment failed 4 times. i had to borrow money twice because the payment was deducted but credit not given. refund was sanctioned after 15 days AFTER a deduction of Rs. 2500 i think USD $ 40.
if i had used this guys service, i would have been glad to pay him 10 times over because the service which should have been promised by the first party itself IRCTC was in 1990's.
>regulations.
such a bs word in india. why doesnt the railway make their website like a 2020 website which does automation, remembers your shit, allows instant payment and refund, this and that