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A court ruling in Austria could censor the internet worldwide

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Re: A court ruling in Austria could censor the internet worldwide

#11

Post by bennysonething »

roadwarrior7822 wrote: post #4

The title should be rephrased to "A Court Ruling in Austria Could Censor Internet Platforms Worldwide". The Ruling applies to Facebook as a legal person and has no direct effect on other publishers. A contrary example: The Gutenberg Project was ruled illegal (due to a select number of books still in copyright) in Germany and is blocking German IPs ever since, until the issue is resolved. Here the company has chosen a…

Do you really see no problem with states demanding that their censorship laws apply world wide?

Re: A court ruling in Austria could censor the internet worldwide

#12

Post by st_goliath »

trowawayprivacy wrote: post #2

This has come up again because a terrorist attacked the center of the capital Vienna. The thing that makes this so incredibly ridiculous, is that the authorities actually knew the person tried to attend a IS training camp in Syria. They stopped him. So they knew very well about his intentions. Then a nearby state Slovakia told the Austrian authorities that this person was there and bout ammunition. The Austrian autho…

> This has come up again because a terrorist attacked the center of the capital Vienna.

No. Please read the article. This is about a law suit which has been going on for a few years. The case itself has absolutely nothing to do with recent events. Also, Austria does not have a case law system. Courts don't make laws (the constitutional court in Austria can strike down laws, but that's about it) and are not bound by previous court decisions. The fact that the supreme court ruled on it just means the decision on this case is final (as far as the Austria judicial branch is concerned).

Besides, do you seriously believe a court could act based on something that happened 11 days ago? Have you ever dealt with a court?

That said, I mostly agree with your ramblings, but that has simply little to no connection to the case and resulting problems discussed in the article.

Re: A court ruling in Austria could censor the internet worldwide

#13

Post by damnencryption »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #10
save_ferris wrote: post #7

> The case started with an April 2016 Facebook post, in which a user shared an article featuring a photo of Eva Glawischnig-Piesczek, then-chair of Austria’s Green Party, along with commentary labeling her a “lousy traitor,” “corrupt oaf,” and member of a “fascist party,” apparently in response to her immigration policies. This is core, protected speech in the United States. But it was deemed defamation under Austria…

I just don't see the equivalence here. I agree that platforms have a responsibility not to enable harassment and death threats, but calling a politician "traitor", "corrupt", "fascist" is neither of those things. What are you supposed to do when a politician is corrupt or fascist, if you aren't allowed to talk about it?

Politicians can only be good or neutral.

Re: A court ruling in Austria could censor the internet worldwide

#14

Post by eznzt »

bennysonething wrote: post #11
roadwarrior7822 wrote: post #4

The title should be rephrased to "A Court Ruling in Austria Could Censor Internet Platforms Worldwide". The Ruling applies to Facebook as a legal person and has no direct effect on other publishers. A contrary example: The Gutenberg Project was ruled illegal (due to a select number of books still in copyright) in Germany and is blocking German IPs ever since, until the issue is resolved. Here the company has chosen a…

Do you really see no problem with states demanding that their censorship laws apply world wide?

People here don't because the attitude here is "it's Facebook so fuck them".

Re: A court ruling in Austria could censor the internet worldwide

#15

Post by dsr_ »

YarickR2 wrote: post #9
choeger wrote: post #3

That's quite the problem we are in, as a global society. Obviously no one wants to give North Korea any say about what can and what cannot be published in the web. But between sovereign, free, democratic societies, different standards might exist. And if you want to do business with, say, the EU as, say, a US tech company you cannot expect US law and commons to apply everywhere. Then it becomes a race to the bottom i…

Your statement about North Korea strikes me as a very discriminatory, as it implies your judgement about NK is somehow objective, and it's political system is a condition justifying them being denied equal treatment in various situations.

No, their judgement about NK is subjective but widely shared.

It is perfectly reasonable to discriminate against political systems that you disagree with. It's pretty much the basis of international diplomacy, such as it is: a system of bargaining and coercion that usually prevents outright war.

Re: A court ruling in Austria could censor the internet worldwide

#16

Post by JumpCrisscross »

save_ferris wrote: post #7

> The case started with an April 2016 Facebook post, in which a user shared an article featuring a photo of Eva Glawischnig-Piesczek, then-chair of Austria’s Green Party, along with commentary labeling her a “lousy traitor,” “corrupt oaf,” and member of a “fascist party,” apparently in response to her immigration policies. This is core, protected speech in the United States. But it was deemed defamation under Austria…

> has there been another Western democracy more tested and compared to Orwell's 1984 in the last 5 years than the US?

None of those people are in jail. And that regime, despite its best efforts, is being peacefully removed from power.

America is the world’s oldest [EDIT: large, old] extant democracy. I wouldn’t lightly consider toying with something so basic as free speech. Several European and Asian democracies are already teetering towards authoritarianism, the first step of which is curtailing public debate.

Re: A court ruling in Austria could censor the internet worldwide

#17

Post by JumpCrisscross »

roadwarrior7822 wrote: post #4

The title should be rephrased to "A Court Ruling in Austria Could Censor Internet Platforms Worldwide". The Ruling applies to Facebook as a legal person and has no direct effect on other publishers. A contrary example: The Gutenberg Project was ruled illegal (due to a select number of books still in copyright) in Germany and is blocking German IPs ever since, until the issue is resolved. Here the company has chosen a…

> Facebook could decide to withdraw from the Austrian market (which it won't)

There is another option: defiance. Withdraw employees, liquidate assets, and force Austria to enjoin it overseas and/or block it.

Re: A court ruling in Austria could censor the internet worldwide

#18

Post by roadwarrior7822 »

bennysonething wrote: post #11
roadwarrior7822 wrote: post #4

The title should be rephrased to "A Court Ruling in Austria Could Censor Internet Platforms Worldwide". The Ruling applies to Facebook as a legal person and has no direct effect on other publishers. A contrary example: The Gutenberg Project was ruled illegal (due to a select number of books still in copyright) in Germany and is blocking German IPs ever since, until the issue is resolved. Here the company has chosen a…

Do you really see no problem with states demanding that their censorship laws apply world wide?

Did I say that? I don't think so.

I see a problem in a generalization of the kind done in the title of the article.

Facebook is not "the Internet". The Austrian court rule does not apply to "The Internet" at all. It applies to Facebook and Facebook only. If someone published the same content on another platform then the court would have to rule again.

I see the real problem in Platforms like Facebook becoming the only means of speech on the Internet for the majority of people. Censorship on Facebook happens on a global scale without any state intervention already. (Edit: And that is not because Facebook is evil but because some content is bad for business. And that will be true for any service that aims to be a somewhat neutral and profitable platform.)

Re: A court ruling in Austria could censor the internet worldwide

#19

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Didn’t France try this with their right to be forgotten [1]? How did that go?

EDIT: Paris was told to go stuff it [2].

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/30/google-re...

Re: A court ruling in Austria could censor the internet worldwide

#20

Post by michaelscott »

save_ferris wrote: post #7

> The case started with an April 2016 Facebook post, in which a user shared an article featuring a photo of Eva Glawischnig-Piesczek, then-chair of Austria’s Green Party, along with commentary labeling her a “lousy traitor,” “corrupt oaf,” and member of a “fascist party,” apparently in response to her immigration policies. This is core, protected speech in the United States. But it was deemed defamation under Austria…

> has there been another Western democracy more tested and compared to Orwell's 1984 in the last 5 years than the US?

There have been probing tests of the nature of free speech laws in a number of countries outside the US in recent years, notably the potential transgender pronoun compulsion laws that landed Jordan Peterson in trouble in Canada, as well as a number of tried or in trial cases in places like the UK[0] and Australia[1]. It's a difficult line to draw, as threats of violence and general harassment clearly shouldn't be allowed or tolerated. I'm not sure the trend that these other Western nations are attempting to follow is necessarily good either though, as some veer dangerously close to thought policing.

[0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925 [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/dec/27/battle-lines-dra...

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