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How Apple's Moral Compass Works

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Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#11

Post by jrockway »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #10
trythis3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, the company is run by a comparatively moralistic CEO. Apple and Steve Jobs are not as superficial as their many detractors accuse them of being. In fact, they're among the least superficial entities in the business.

Would this be the same CEO that would fire people if they couldn't justify their job in an elevator ride? Or the Steve Jobs who denied his daughter's existence until it was painfully clear she was his (going so far as to force her mother onto welfare because he refused to support her)? Or are you talking about the Steve Jobs who paid lip service to improving conditions at Foxconn while not forcing them to improve any…

But he wears a turtleneck and jeans and says stuff like "one more thing."

Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#13

Post by thaumaturgy »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #10
trythis3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, the company is run by a comparatively moralistic CEO. Apple and Steve Jobs are not as superficial as their many detractors accuse them of being. In fact, they're among the least superficial entities in the business.

Would this be the same CEO that would fire people if they couldn't justify their job in an elevator ride? Or the Steve Jobs who denied his daughter's existence until it was painfully clear she was his (going so far as to force her mother onto welfare because he refused to support her)? Or are you talking about the Steve Jobs who paid lip service to improving conditions at Foxconn while not forcing them to improve any…

It's kind of a bummer that you included the Foxconn example, considering that there have been several articles pointing out that Foxconn is huge and, statistically speaking, they have a lower suicide rate than the national average. In other words, working at Foxconn makes you less likely to commit suicide!

That example kind of casts doubt on the others, which I hadn't heard of before (but wouldn't be surprised by, either).

Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#14

Post by ceejayoz »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #10
trythis3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, the company is run by a comparatively moralistic CEO. Apple and Steve Jobs are not as superficial as their many detractors accuse them of being. In fact, they're among the least superficial entities in the business.

Would this be the same CEO that would fire people if they couldn't justify their job in an elevator ride? Or the Steve Jobs who denied his daughter's existence until it was painfully clear she was his (going so far as to force her mother onto welfare because he refused to support her)? Or are you talking about the Steve Jobs who paid lip service to improving conditions at Foxconn while not forcing them to improve any…

> Or are you talking about the Steve Jobs who paid lip service to improving conditions at Foxconn while not forcing them to improve anything (I think there's been 3 suicides so far this year)?

Foxconn had 920,000 employees in 2010, according to Wikipedia. China's suicide rate per 100,000 people is 6.6. If there've been 3 suicides thus far, they're tremendously below average.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_ra...

Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#15

Post by TomOfTTB »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #13
TomOfTTB wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would this be the same CEO that would fire people if they couldn't justify their job in an elevator ride? Or the Steve Jobs who denied his daughter's existence until it was painfully clear she was his (going so far as to force her mother onto welfare because he refused to support her)? Or are you talking about the Steve Jobs who paid lip service to improving conditions at Foxconn while not forcing them to improve any…

It's kind of a bummer that you included the Foxconn example, considering that there have been several articles pointing out that Foxconn is huge and, statistically speaking, they have a lower suicide rate than the national average. In other words, working at Foxconn makes you less likely to commit suicide! That example kind of casts doubt on the others, which I hadn't heard of before (but wouldn't be surprised by, ei…

On the other claims are you capable of using Google? If you had the time to post this you should have the time to verify the data for your own piece of mind.

As far as Foxconn the company is huge but 30 suicide attempts in 3 weeks is not normal (http://gizmodo.com/#!5540045/foxconn-suicide-cluster-claims-...). China only has a .02% suicide rate and most are in the rural areas (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-09/11/content_609571...). That's 1 (Edit: I meant 1,000 here) in every 5 million people killing themselves. Foxconn has 950,000 employees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn) and 30 suicide attempts in 3 weeks!

Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#17

Post by kloncks »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #10
trythis3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, the company is run by a comparatively moralistic CEO. Apple and Steve Jobs are not as superficial as their many detractors accuse them of being. In fact, they're among the least superficial entities in the business.

Would this be the same CEO that would fire people if they couldn't justify their job in an elevator ride? Or the Steve Jobs who denied his daughter's existence until it was painfully clear she was his (going so far as to force her mother onto welfare because he refused to support her)? Or are you talking about the Steve Jobs who paid lip service to improving conditions at Foxconn while not forcing them to improve any…

C'mon.

Young people make mistakes. Young suddenly-rich successful people will often make bad decisions.

Hating on Steve Jobs for something he has done previously when he was young and stupid makes as much sense as hating on Mark Zuckerburg as a 19-year-old calling Facebook users "dumb fucks".

But no. You're right. I'm sure the CEOs who have no vision or rigid beliefs are better. I'm sure that those that will change absolutely anything - selling PCs with not enough memory to handle an Operating System or putting Flash onto products that simply can't support them and crash - to simply sell more products are better.

We're not beautifying the man. We're simply giving him his deserved compliments in an industry where he's still a moral rarity.

Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#18

Post by ceejayoz »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #15
thaumaturgy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of a bummer that you included the Foxconn example, considering that there have been several articles pointing out that Foxconn is huge and, statistically speaking, they have a lower suicide rate than the national average. In other words, working at Foxconn makes you less likely to commit suicide! That example kind of casts doubt on the others, which I hadn't heard of before (but wouldn't be surprised by, ei…

On the other claims are you capable of using Google? If you had the time to post this you should have the time to verify the data for your own piece of mind. As far as Foxconn the company is huge but 30 suicide attempts in 3 weeks is not normal ( http://gizmodo.com/#!5540045/foxconn-suicide-cluster-claims-... ). China only has a .02% suicide rate and most are in the rural areas ( http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/20…

> On the other claims are you capable of using Google?

> China only has a .02% suicide rate and most are in the rural areas (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-09/11/content_609571...). That's 1 in every 5 million people killing themselves.

While you're suggesting people use Google, you should acquaint yourself with the calculator function. That's 1,000 in every 5 million people killing themselves. http://www.google.com/search?q=0.02%25+*+5000000

10 suicide attempts a week in a company the size of San Jose, California isn't particularly high.

Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#19

Post by TomOfTTB »

ceejayoz wrote: post #18
TomOfTTB wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other claims are you capable of using Google? If you had the time to post this you should have the time to verify the data for your own piece of mind. As far as Foxconn the company is huge but 30 suicide attempts in 3 weeks is not normal ( http://gizmodo.com/#!5540045/foxconn-suicide-cluster-claims-... ). China only has a .02% suicide rate and most are in the rural areas ( http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/20…

> On the other claims are you capable of using Google? > China only has a .02% suicide rate and most are in the rural areas ( http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-09/11/content_609571... ). That's 1 in every 5 million people killing themselves. While you're suggesting people use Google, you should acquaint yourself with the calculator function. That's 1,000 in every 5 million people killing themselves. http://www.…

Sorry I meant 1,000 there. But my typo doesn't invalidate the point. The total suicide rate includes the elderly, the painfully poor, and so on. Foxconn workers by virtue of having a job at all are in the higher ranks of society. They shouldn't be at a rate that's over 50% of the total suicide rate.

(Also note instead of improving the conditions they put out Suicide nets which is bound to bring their numbers down)

Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#20

Post by thaumaturgy »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #15
thaumaturgy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of a bummer that you included the Foxconn example, considering that there have been several articles pointing out that Foxconn is huge and, statistically speaking, they have a lower suicide rate than the national average. In other words, working at Foxconn makes you less likely to commit suicide! That example kind of casts doubt on the others, which I hadn't heard of before (but wouldn't be surprised by, ei…

On the other claims are you capable of using Google? If you had the time to post this you should have the time to verify the data for your own piece of mind. As far as Foxconn the company is huge but 30 suicide attempts in 3 weeks is not normal ( http://gizmodo.com/#!5540045/foxconn-suicide-cluster-claims-... ). China only has a .02% suicide rate and most are in the rural areas ( http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/20…

> On the other claims are you capable of using Google?

Nope. Is that a new startup? YCS11?

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