Not Everyone has to go to College • Hacker News Board

Re: Not Everyone has to go to College

#11

Post by adrianN » Sun, May 01, 2011, 4:45 PM UTC

CodeMage wrote: post #3

I agree with you on a lot of points, especially the following two: 1. College doesn't guarantee success. 2. Not everyone should go to college. But here's where we diverge: I believe we'll never get to the point where everyone will "succeed". We all want our kids to succeed, but our definition of success is usually based on things like "have a high-paying job", "be important", "be powerful" or "be famous". This is bec…

While I agree that striving for happiness is a totally acceptable goal in live, I think it's a bit egoistic. I would not teach my children to seek power or riches, but to work to "better themselves and the rest of humanity". If the can't leave their own footprints, they can at least try to help others in doing that.

I want humans to achieve cool things -- build AIs, end disease and death, and settle on other planets. If everybody sought their own happiness I fear that progress would be much slower.

Re: Not Everyone has to go to College

#12

Post by gemenon » Sun, May 01, 2011, 4:57 PM UTC

m0th87 wrote: post #7

Not everybody does go to college; in fact, less than a third of Americans do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_U...

The percent of Americans age 25+ who attended college (some college) is 55.6%, so it is clear we are seeing well over half of Americans attend college if you include those under 25.

Re: Not Everyone has to go to College

#13

Post by [deleted] » Sun, May 01, 2011, 5:08 PM UTC

exi wrote: post #9

Great read. I'd like to say that I've been okay with my decision to drop out of college. Yet several years later all I've found is that 98% of companies now want a BA just to answer phones. A number of friends that I went to school with cruised their way through with C averages. I would be amazed when they'd ask me to read some of their senior level work and it would have the spelling mistakes of a 2nd grader. They s…

[deleted]

Re: Not Everyone has to go to College

#14

Post by rm445 » Sun, May 01, 2011, 5:10 PM UTC

exi wrote: post #9

Great read. I'd like to say that I've been okay with my decision to drop out of college. Yet several years later all I've found is that 98% of companies now want a BA just to answer phones. A number of friends that I went to school with cruised their way through with C averages. I would be amazed when they'd ask me to read some of their senior level work and it would have the spelling mistakes of a 2nd grader. They s…

That's harsh, and I hope things work out for you, but there is another thing going on here - a constant treadmill of qualifications is becoming the norm in many industries. You might be doing your career harm if you isolate yourself from the main stream of academic qualifications that makes up that treadmill.

Those friends who cruised through school and have good careers, did they actually stop at a BA? Or do they have, say, accountancy qualifications? Masters degrees gained while working? Memberships of professional institutions, working towards being chartered in their profession?

Obviously I don't know the answer to that, and it varies a lot between industries - many programmers here on HN get by fine with talent and experience, and don't feel pushed to gain extra qualifications. But depending what you do, qualifications can open doors to other qualifications and over a long career it might make quite a bit of difference.

Re: Not Everyone has to go to College

#15

Post by ams6110 » Sun, May 01, 2011, 5:17 PM UTC

exi wrote: post #9

Great read. I'd like to say that I've been okay with my decision to drop out of college. Yet several years later all I've found is that 98% of companies now want a BA just to answer phones. A number of friends that I went to school with cruised their way through with C averages. I would be amazed when they'd ask me to read some of their senior level work and it would have the spelling mistakes of a 2nd grader. They s…

I think if you have aspirations to work in an office job for a traditional company, something beyond a high-school diploma is more or less the price of admission these days. On the other hand I think that we tend to assume that this is what everybody wants, and as a result our public education systems no longer serve well those who are not college-bound.

Re: Not Everyone has to go to College

#16

Post by mikekarnj » Sun, May 01, 2011, 5:19 PM UTC

mikle wrote: post #6

First a bit of criticism - I don't like this way of presenting. 193 slides? Each with one sentence? This is borderline maddening and if this wasn't a topic I was interested in I wouldn't have made it even 30 slides in. A tl:dr would just tell you to skip to slide 160. Not only that but the parts about Skillshare itself are so disguised that I still don't have a firm grasp of why should I go there and what can I do th…

I actually presented all 193 slides in less than 15 minutes. The format was a huge hit with the audience.

Re: Not Everyone has to go to College

#17

Post by xiaoma » Sun, May 01, 2011, 5:19 PM UTC

mikle wrote: post #6

First a bit of criticism - I don't like this way of presenting. 193 slides? Each with one sentence? This is borderline maddening and if this wasn't a topic I was interested in I wouldn't have made it even 30 slides in. A tl:dr would just tell you to skip to slide 160. Not only that but the parts about Skillshare itself are so disguised that I still don't have a firm grasp of why should I go there and what can I do th…

I agree. I regularly flag links to slide share. Life is too short for clicking 190 times to get through at most a page of text and a bunch of pictures.

I also upvote any and all comments within such posts that supply the content in a more readable format.

Re: Not Everyone has to go to College

#18

Post by edderly » Sun, May 01, 2011, 5:31 PM UTC

JTCJr wrote: post #10

The freakenomics podcast guys answered a listeners question regarding 'does college still matter?' Worth checking out the answer just for the unambiguous the answer is. (Answer starts at 3:00) http://freakonomicsradio.com/does-college-still-matter-and-o... [Spoiler alert: the answer is 'hell yes' (paraphrased).]

Interesting to listen to that. Though to be fair the question was whether college was no longer a factor or a disadvantage to gaining employment.

You can't argue with the global statement over time college education results in a greater income on average. However, what was pointed out in the OP was how balanced is the average?

Also I thought Levitt's point about comparing Vietnam draft high number lottery 'winners' not going to college versus lower number lottery winners attending college was weak simply because it was 40 years ago.

Re: Not Everyone has to go to College

#19

Post by TheRevoltingX » Sun, May 01, 2011, 5:34 PM UTC

I never even finished High School, and now I earn more/do less than my college degree holding co-workers. I have the advantage of being a programmer though, where skill is at least measurable to some degree and college education isn't as important.

It's actually taboo, but we now assume that someone who graduated from college probably sucks but is willing to do boring tasks.

Re: Not Everyone has to go to College

#20

Post by rdtsc » Sun, May 01, 2011, 5:43 PM UTC

CodeMage wrote: post #3

I agree with you on a lot of points, especially the following two: 1. College doesn't guarantee success. 2. Not everyone should go to college. But here's where we diverge: I believe we'll never get to the point where everyone will "succeed". We all want our kids to succeed, but our definition of success is usually based on things like "have a high-paying job", "be important", "be powerful" or "be famous". This is bec…

> That said, I believe that we should define "success" differently for our kids.

Interestingly coming from another country to US I had a little bit of a different understanding of "success". It meant something like a general "good luck", or "happiness".

Here (in US) it seems to a code word for "lots of money" and "power over people". One wouldn't refer to someone who decides to live in a remote hut in the woods, fishing and hunting but having 0 income and not managing anyone as "successful".