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What Day of the Dead tells us about the Aztec philosophy of happiness

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Re: What Day of the Dead tells us about the Aztec philosophy of happiness

#11

Post by rtkaratekid »

s5300 wrote: post #5
andi999 wrote: post #3

Somehow it doesnt feel good for me to try to learn from Aztec philosophy, werent these the guys with the appaling human sacrifices?

Ehh, not even trying to be snarky - the US was basically sacrificing children during the industrial revolution, purely in the name of profit. AFAIK, the aztecs at least thought they were appeasing all powerful gods when doing it. Don't think the same could be said of us...

You could probably argue that the US children were also sacrificed to gods... they just happened to be represented by money rather than some metaphysical beliefs.

Re: What Day of the Dead tells us about the Aztec philosophy of happiness

#12

Post by yesenadam »

s5300 wrote: post #5
andi999 wrote: post #3

Somehow it doesnt feel good for me to try to learn from Aztec philosophy, werent these the guys with the appaling human sacrifices?

Ehh, not even trying to be snarky - the US was basically sacrificing children during the industrial revolution, purely in the name of profit. AFAIK, the aztecs at least thought they were appeasing all powerful gods when doing it. Don't think the same could be said of us...

> the US was basically sacrificing children during the industrial revolution

Well, and more recently...for example, just a few years ago on a huge scale in Iraq. (Not to mention ongoing birth defects)

Re: What Day of the Dead tells us about the Aztec philosophy of happiness

#13

Post by engineer_22 »

h0l0cube wrote: post #8
0_____0 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where I came across this info but there's a theory that observations of sacrifices may have been at a time of great despair for Aztec society, sacrifice being an act of desperation.

Yeah, I vaguely recollected (again that podcast I linked) while their civilization was under siege by Cortes, they wondered why the gods had forsaken them. The whole thing is really tragic. Edit: The wiki article states around 20k prisoners per year were captured for sacrifice, though perhaps the number might have been inflated to intimidate their enemies. > Every Aztec warrior would have to provide at least one pris…

> which suggests that capturing prisoners for sacrifice was challenging

Who knew... mortal combat was challenging?

Re: What Day of the Dead tells us about the Aztec philosophy of happiness

#14

Post by poisonarena »

h0l0cube wrote: post #4
andi999 wrote: post #3

Somehow it doesnt feel good for me to try to learn from Aztec philosophy, werent these the guys with the appaling human sacrifices?

I only know as much from the podcast I mentioned in the sibling comment, but it seem they were somewhat caricaturized. If you listen to the Podcast you learn the other side of how they were massacred by Cortes, which doesn't really cast the Spanish in a good light. (But surely we can learn from the Spanish despite the acts of Cortes?) Edit: A cursory wiki search leads to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacr…

What does Cortes have to do with their practice of human sacrifice?

Re: What Day of the Dead tells us about the Aztec philosophy of happiness

#15

Post by poisonarena »

watwut wrote: post #10
andi999 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question, but to counter: we do not throw away everything German, but everything in the Nazi ideology, dont we? It is not that I say we shouldnt learn from the successors of the culture, but isnt this post saying we should learn from that culture itself? To me (bringing back in the German example) it sounds like (trying to transfer the example) 'learn how to get organized with nazi ideology'. Adressing your firs…

> we do not throw away everything German, but everything in the Nazi ideology, dont we? No, we did not. To large extend, people don't even know what Nazi ideology and goals actually were except that they killed most Jews. But first here, you would have to show they were overall like Nazi. > Adressing your first point, I really think that human (including children) sacrifice is quite unique and not present in the cult…

do you have sources for any of that stuff regarding Columbus? I hear people say stuff like that about him but I have never seen any primary sources

Re: What Day of the Dead tells us about the Aztec philosophy of happiness

#16

Post by belval »

poisonarena wrote: post #14
h0l0cube wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only know as much from the podcast I mentioned in the sibling comment, but it seem they were somewhat caricaturized. If you listen to the Podcast you learn the other side of how they were massacred by Cortes, which doesn't really cast the Spanish in a good light. (But surely we can learn from the Spanish despite the acts of Cortes?) Edit: A cursory wiki search leads to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacr…

What does Cortes have to do with their practice of human sacrifice?

Nothing, he's simply drawing the parallel that the Spanish did atrocities as well and that did not stop us from learning "from" them.

I say we can all appreciate the good without embracing the bad.

Re: What Day of the Dead tells us about the Aztec philosophy of happiness

#17

Post by belval »

poisonarena wrote: post #15
watwut wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we do not throw away everything German, but everything in the Nazi ideology, dont we? No, we did not. To large extend, people don't even know what Nazi ideology and goals actually were except that they killed most Jews. But first here, you would have to show they were overall like Nazi. > Adressing your first point, I really think that human (including children) sacrifice is quite unique and not present in the cult…

do you have sources for any of that stuff regarding Columbus? I hear people say stuff like that about him but I have never seen any primary sources

The Wikipedia article seem to give weight to actually cutting hands for not filling quota, but I guess you could argue that his "system" was not how he actually acted.

"Columbus's forced labour system was described by his son Ferdinand: "In the Cibao, where the gold mines were, every person of fourteen years of age or upward was to pay a large hawk's bell of gold dust; all others were each to pay twenty-five pounds of cotton. Whenever an Indian delivered his tribute, he was to receive a brass or copper token which he must wear about his neck as proof that he had made his payment; any Indian found without such a token was to be punished." The monarchs, who suggested the tokens, called for a light punishment, but any Indian found without a copper token had their hands cut off, which was a likely death sentence.[118] Since there was no abundance of gold on the island, the natives had no chance of meeting Columbus' quota and thousands are reported to have committed suicide."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

Re: What Day of the Dead tells us about the Aztec philosophy of happiness

#18

Post by dbspin »

h0l0cube wrote: post #2

The Fall of Civilizations podcast does a very good long-form story-telling about the invasion and collapse of the Aztec empire. I really do recommend it and the rest in the series. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56WPMRERgxg

Second this, Fall of Civilisations is outstanding, and easily the most beautifully produced and impeccably researched history / prehistory podcast that's out there. It's BBC radio quality. Just astonishing that it's free to download.

Re: What Day of the Dead tells us about the Aztec philosophy of happiness

#19

Post by stareatgoats »

h0l0cube wrote: post #2

The Fall of Civilizations podcast does a very good long-form story-telling about the invasion and collapse of the Aztec empire. I really do recommend it and the rest in the series. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56WPMRERgxg

I am actually currently near the end of the second video about the Aztecs. Well researched, well narrated and accompanied by memorable pictures and captivating film/animation-sequences just like the rest of the series.

Had to pause it yesterday though. The depiction of a depressed Moctezuma before the final collapse got to me. Both he and we know how it is going to end.

Re: What Day of the Dead tells us about the Aztec philosophy of happiness

#20

Post by [deleted] »

andi999 wrote: post #9
watwut wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were they worst then Ancient Greecks, Romans, Sparta, whatever church done in European history, genocide of native Americans called for by American founding fathers? Human sacrifice was a real thing and Aztecs were cruel toward those they dominated. So were those above mentioned - and many colorful reports of human sacrifice are result of torture and paranoid imagination. Some dominant groups are more appaling then o…

Good question, but to counter: we do not throw away everything German, but everything in the Nazi ideology, dont we? It is not that I say we shouldnt learn from the successors of the culture, but isnt this post saying we should learn from that culture itself? To me (bringing back in the German example) it sounds like (trying to transfer the example) 'learn how to get organized with nazi ideology'. Adressing your firs…

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