It happens a lot in Spain as well. I met many people (always men) who had to deal with similar situations.
Unfortunately in some countries, forming a family can really go south for the guys if the woman decides so.
A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career
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Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career
#12I doubt this is limited to Italy. It has become a meme that a guy is likely to suffer more during a separation if she is motivated and gets herself a good lawyer. If she insists to get the kids, she will. If she doesnt want him to see them very often, she will get her will. I am sure there are examples where it was the other way around. No question. However, the way how the mother is treated as more of a parent then…
The mother being treated/expected to be more of a parent does not start at divorce. That's simply the continuation of a societal expectation that women will do the 'mothering.' Because that social expectation is there, it is far more often true that in a hetro marriage the wife will be the one who gives up their career path to take care of a child. Thus the court systems has standardized on an expectation that the mo…
True, but once in place, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and an in-built part of sexism.
Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career
#13Hey, a similar situation of fathers after splitting or divorce in Poland also.
In my 20s I was like "hell, people starts families, I could make it!". Now in my 30s knowing how awfully things can go south, having went through numerous within-EU emigrations and knowing the struggles... I don't know anymore what kind of partner would be even suitable to start a family with.
Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career
#14I doubt this is limited to Italy. It has become a meme that a guy is likely to suffer more during a separation if she is motivated and gets herself a good lawyer. If she insists to get the kids, she will. If she doesnt want him to see them very often, she will get her will. I am sure there are examples where it was the other way around. No question. However, the way how the mother is treated as more of a parent then…
And it is also nothing new. Personally, I had it 25 years ago in Germany. Same patterns than and now in virtually all western societies. Problem is and was, the topic owns some extraordinary tabu traits and prejudices from people not affected. Ironically, it is not uncommon for them to come three years later and ask when their own lives fall apart.
Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career
#15I don't have any strong opinions about the fairness or unfairness of divorce laws around parenting, not in the US and certainly not in Italy. However, I was recently a very close witness to some divorce proceedings involving my girlfriend and the end of her polyamorous marriage, and boy, oh boy. The husband made the decision to make the divorce as painful as possible (falsifying evidence, perjuring himself) to try to…
I think part of the problem is that many people aren't making agreements based on trust and are actually signing pre-nups, but those never seem as binding when it comes to actual court proceedings.
Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career
#16Anyone interested in the impact this has on children (especially boys) should read "The Boy Crisis" by John Gray PhD. ( https://www.amazon.com/Boy-Crisis-Boys-Struggling-About/dp/1... ).
Tl;dr ... A disproportionate share of seriously troubled boys share an alienated, minimized or absent father in common. The worthwhile and well intentioned effort to right the wrongs of past discrimination of women has traveled a bridge too far. Tragic unintended consequences plague children of divorce, working men, and stay-at-home fathers. This cause-effect is an inconvenient truth, ignored because its not politically correct or advantageous to raise the issue.
Speaking for myself as someone who spent 8 years and about $300,000 to have an equal role in my children's lives... you can watch the damage this has on your children change them over time. Resignation, external locus of control, etc. are all divorce-induced impacts on kids who must endure the back and forth.
Brutal stuff.
Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career
#17I doubt this is limited to Italy. It has become a meme that a guy is likely to suffer more during a separation if she is motivated and gets herself a good lawyer. If she insists to get the kids, she will. If she doesnt want him to see them very often, she will get her will. I am sure there are examples where it was the other way around. No question. However, the way how the mother is treated as more of a parent then…
The mother being treated/expected to be more of a parent does not start at divorce. That's simply the continuation of a societal expectation that women will do the 'mothering.' Because that social expectation is there, it is far more often true that in a hetro marriage the wife will be the one who gives up their career path to take care of a child. Thus the court systems has standardized on an expectation that the mo…
> Because that social expectation is there [...]
The court should temper society's vices not empower them.
Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
The mother being treated/expected to be more of a parent does not start at divorce. That's simply the continuation of a societal expectation that women will do the 'mothering.' Because that social expectation is there, it is far more often true that in a hetro marriage the wife will be the one who gives up their career path to take care of a child. Thus the court systems has standardized on an expectation that the mo…
True, but once in place, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and an in-built part of sexism.
Sure, but the 'fix,' if there is one, likely needs to start with the social pressures on women to give up their lives to parent, with more equitable parenting expectations overall, and let that bubble up to the court baselines.
Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
I tried that for a little while with my ex while we were working things out. You really need your own place that is away from the other person all the time. You are constantly reminded of your ex while you’re there.
Presumably your children constantly remind you of your ex as well, so I'm not sure "set things up in a way where I'm not reminded of my ex" is an achievable goal in the first place.
Agreed. Hopefully it’s used as a way to get over the pain and live with the reality of the relationship and focus on the positives.
Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career
#20No fault divorce needs to go away when there are children involved. That is basically the end of it. Marriage is ultimately about creating family. You can't undo your marriage once you have a child anymore than you can undo your parentage or undo your relationship with a cousin. If mom and dad want to screw around with other people, their rights to do so obviously should not be restricted, but there should be no out from the marriage itself, except for cases of abuse or endangerment.
What does it say to a child to unmake the very thing that made them? How awful. The wisdom of the past says that the old way was simply superior, and we see that when we look at things like the mental health crisis, the lack of grit, the prevalence of anxiety disordes. Generations past would look at our current system and say the obvious -- which was said at the time no-fault divorce became a thing as well, just forgotten by this day -- that the prevalence of family dissolution causes severe, apparently unrelated social ills. We need to put the brake on really.