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Catala: a programming language for socio-fiscal legislative literate programming

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Re: Catala: a programming language for socio-fiscal legislative literate programming

#11
post #10
post #9

I can’t think a worse name for a programming language that of an actual language.

> The language is named after Pierre Catala, a professor of law who pionneered the French legaltech by creating a computer database of law cases, Juris-Data.

By the way: catala is latin spelling of bengali name for a fish as well.

Re: Catala: a programming language for socio-fiscal legislative literate programming

#12
post #2

It’s such a French thing to write software supporting French and English while making all the examples in README French...

Maybe that was done to prove the point that the language, unlike most other programming languages, does not have any built-in English assumptions?

Also I think the examples are actually quite comprehensible even to non french speakers.

Re: Catala: a programming language for socio-fiscal legislative literate programming

#16
If you are intrigued by the idea that law can and will be represented as computer code / data, here are a few link to go deeper :

* British national act as a logic program (1982): the paper that is the based of most current effort in this domain https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234805335_The_Briti...

* Standford codex LSP initiative that try to standarize the format in which legal rule will be encoded https://law.stanford.edu/publications/developing-a-legal-spe... (as far as I know the initiative is still going, don't hesitate to contact oliver goodenough if you want to get involved)

* OECD recently publish (2 weeks a go) a full repport on current initiative in the domain https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/governance/cracking-the-code_3...

* There was a workshop at last ICAIL where a lot of people showed their progress on the topic (link to all demo video in this gdoc : https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1-7cJ0KsYzQ8IOY3L_bYX...)

* MIT started a journal on the topic ~1 year ago https://law.mit.edu/

If you want to work on this topic DM me :)

Re: Catala: a programming language for socio-fiscal legislative literate programming

#17
Interesting idea. Some complications are that most laws are written as updates, or change sets, to existing laws. Then there's the agency administrative rules that clarify what the laws are supposed to do, and the administrative law rulings about the rules, and the civil law rulings about the administrative law rulings, etc.

Re: Catala: a programming language for socio-fiscal legislative literate programming

#18
post #16

If you are intrigued by the idea that law can and will be represented as computer code / data, here are a few link to go deeper : * British national act as a logic program (1982): the paper that is the based of most current effort in this domain https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234805335_The_Briti... * Standford codex LSP initiative that try to standarize the format in which legal rule will be encoded https:/…

Do you think it might be possible to eventually use a Deep Learning model like GPT-3 to do the formalisation for us? It seems like a herculean task to do it by hand.

Re: Catala: a programming language for socio-fiscal legislative literate programming

#19
post #16

If you are intrigued by the idea that law can and will be represented as computer code / data, here are a few link to go deeper : * British national act as a logic program (1982): the paper that is the based of most current effort in this domain https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234805335_The_Briti... * Standford codex LSP initiative that try to standarize the format in which legal rule will be encoded https:/…

Do you think it might be possible to eventually use a Deep Learning model like GPT-3 to do the formalisation for us? It seems like a herculean task to do it by hand.

GPT-3 is a good step but not enough. We had some good result trying to use it to translate legaleese to more parasable pseudo code. However there is still to much approximation for it to be useful today.

Short/mid term I believe that we will have tool allowing lawyer / regulator to draft in a formal form from which we will derive the legaleese. The stanford LSP is pushing in this direction and there is early tentative tools already published such as blawx or Oracle Policy Automation. I m aware of at least 3 other tool under development that push for this paradigm.

Fun fact one of the earliest effort in computational law involve lawyer writing contract in a formal english in ~1957 (original paper still full of good ideas on legal formalism https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcont )

Re: Catala: a programming language for socio-fiscal legislative literate programming

#20
How is this different from normal languages such as Java? Lawyers do not have a problem to learn actual programming language. This does not have a IDE support and all the goodies.

We implemented tax law. Split each paragraph as a javadoc for method. Manually calculated data were read from excel sheets, and unit tested. We even used Jira for bug tracking and integration.

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