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Keep the nuclear launch codes in an innocent volunteer's chest-cavity (2015)

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Re: Keep the nuclear launch codes in an innocent volunteer's chest-cavity (2015)

#11

Post by sgt101 »

ncmncm wrote: post #2

For the past multiple decades the "launch code" was known throughout the officer corps to be, simply, 00000000000000000. I.e., the whole "nuclear football" scheme was a PR stunt. There is no reason to think its substance has changed.

Let's do a thought experiment : if the above is true then it means that no thought at all has been given to launch security for the most powerful weapons in the USA's inventory. This disregard for national security has been maintained by all presidents since Kennedy and all national security officials as well. During this time any state or non state actor who gained access to the control infrastructure could have issued launch instructions, for example the USSR could have caused a launch at PRC by the USA.

Re: Keep the nuclear launch codes in an innocent volunteer's chest-cavity (2015)

#12

Post by ncmncm »

mhh__ wrote: post #5
ncmncm wrote: post #2

For the past multiple decades the "launch code" was known throughout the officer corps to be, simply, 00000000000000000. I.e., the whole "nuclear football" scheme was a PR stunt. There is no reason to think its substance has changed.

I was under the impression that that was the code to open the missile, not launch it. If you watch a video of a silo firing procedure, there is no one code to launch it.

It was supposed to be a code needed to arm the nuclear weapons mounted to the missiles. (It would be sort-of-pointless to launch a missile with warheads that would not pop.)

But it was a scam, an attempt to reassure people that the generals couldn't start a war all by themselves, from a time when politicians were thought not to be even more insane than any general.

Nowadays we rely on the generals to be less batshit insane than a president.

Re: Keep the nuclear launch codes in an innocent volunteer's chest-cavity (2015)

#13

Post by ncmncm »

sgt101 wrote: post #11
ncmncm wrote: post #2

For the past multiple decades the "launch code" was known throughout the officer corps to be, simply, 00000000000000000. I.e., the whole "nuclear football" scheme was a PR stunt. There is no reason to think its substance has changed.

Let's do a thought experiment : if the above is true then it means that no thought at all has been given to launch security for the most powerful weapons in the USA's inventory. This disregard for national security has been maintained by all presidents since Kennedy and all national security officials as well. During this time any state or non state actor who gained access to the control infrastructure could have iss…

Breathtaking, isn't it? But it doesn't mean that, at all.

All it really means is that we were taken in by a PR scam that had nothing to do with launch security, and everything to do with getting civilians off the backs of serious soldiers who considered themselves better qualified to make decisions than the politicians.

And all it cost to run was to have one of the president's minders carry around a satchel that the press were told had "launch codes" in it. I don't know if the presidents were in on the joke, or even the minders.

Re: Keep the nuclear launch codes in an innocent volunteer's chest-cavity (2015)

#14

Post by manicdee »

sgt101 wrote: post #11
ncmncm wrote: post #2

For the past multiple decades the "launch code" was known throughout the officer corps to be, simply, 00000000000000000. I.e., the whole "nuclear football" scheme was a PR stunt. There is no reason to think its substance has changed.

Let's do a thought experiment : if the above is true then it means that no thought at all has been given to launch security for the most powerful weapons in the USA's inventory. This disregard for national security has been maintained by all presidents since Kennedy and all national security officials as well. During this time any state or non state actor who gained access to the control infrastructure could have iss…

No, the situation is that the security is something you are rather than something you have.

To initiate a launch against PRC, Russia would have had to fake being the President and the entourage including various military brass who would have been able to confirm the identity of the elected official.

Thus the nuclear launch codes served the same purpose as red mercury.

Re: Keep the nuclear launch codes in an innocent volunteer's chest-cavity (2015)

#15

Post by hkt »

ncmncm wrote: post #12
mhh__ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that that was the code to open the missile, not launch it. If you watch a video of a silo firing procedure, there is no one code to launch it.

It was supposed to be a code needed to arm the nuclear weapons mounted to the missiles. (It would be sort-of-pointless to launch a missile with warheads that would not pop.) But it was a scam, an attempt to reassure people that the generals couldn't start a war all by themselves, from a time when politicians were thought not to be even more insane than any general. Nowadays we rely on the generals to be less batshit…

Seems like a good time to drop a link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

Definitely highly sane

Edit: sentence structure

Re: Keep the nuclear launch codes in an innocent volunteer's chest-cavity (2015)

#16

Post by XMPPwocky »

sto_hristo wrote: post #6

Here's a better proposal: Send this professor to orchestrate the invasion of WW2 Japan. He obviously has better ways to deal with a radicalized, ultra nationalist, psycho nation that likes outdo the Nazi in atrocities. Put on a grafana dashboard where he can track how many millions soldiers that would cost as well.

Ignoring the fact that the value of the use of atomic bombs against Japan is heavily debated to this day...

Can you think of anything that might have changed from 1945 to 1981 in terms of geopolitics, such that the use of nuclear weapons by the United States might have led to some sort of global thermonuclear war? In other words- and, excuse me, I'm not very familiar with the history here- was there some other nuclear "superpower" that was around during the 1980s which could, quite easily, destroy all major American population centers, and by all indications would if the U.S. used nuclear weapons against it? And did this other superpower develop its nuclear capability before 1945, or after 1945?

And might there have been some difference in the power of nuclear weapons between Fat Man/Little Boy and those deployed in the early 1980s? That could also make a difference, here.

Any insight here would be greatly appreciated- otherwise it sounds like a really dumb idea to discourage using nuclear weapons against Russia in the 1980s, and I don't know why anybody might want to make that harder.

Re: Keep the nuclear launch codes in an innocent volunteer's chest-cavity (2015)

#17

Post by marcus_holmes »

ncmncm wrote: post #12
mhh__ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that that was the code to open the missile, not launch it. If you watch a video of a silo firing procedure, there is no one code to launch it.

It was supposed to be a code needed to arm the nuclear weapons mounted to the missiles. (It would be sort-of-pointless to launch a missile with warheads that would not pop.) But it was a scam, an attempt to reassure people that the generals couldn't start a war all by themselves, from a time when politicians were thought not to be even more insane than any general. Nowadays we rely on the generals to be less batshit…

In the UK, there's a similar thing with the royalty.

The military swear loyalty to the crown, not to the government. If, perish the thought, the public elected an incompetent malingering buffoon into the office of Prime Minister [cough], who then ordered the military to do something batshit crazy, the officers could ask the Queen (or whoever is monarch if she ever gives up) for confirmation. If she declined to confirm the orders, then the military had grounds to disregard the orders of the government.

Of course, this assumes that the monarch is sane. The Queen, obviously, no problem. Charles - not so sure. His traumised children (well, the one that is still a member of the family) probably, maybe, but who knows what horrors lurk?

So there is the reverse scenario, where Mad King William orders the military to kill all journalists, and the government has to find a way to stop the military from doing that without breaking their oath to the crown.

Re: Keep the nuclear launch codes in an innocent volunteer's chest-cavity (2015)

#18

Post by ncmncm »

hkt wrote: post #15
ncmncm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was supposed to be a code needed to arm the nuclear weapons mounted to the missiles. (It would be sort-of-pointless to launch a missile with warheads that would not pop.) But it was a scam, an attempt to reassure people that the generals couldn't start a war all by themselves, from a time when politicians were thought not to be even more insane than any general. Nowadays we rely on the generals to be less batshit…

Seems like a good time to drop a link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov Definitely highly sane Edit: sentence structure

From the Wikipedia page, for ironic appreciation: "For the footballer, see Stanislav Petrov (footballer)."

(The satchel supposedly containing the "launch codes" was called by the press, and maybe the president's minders, the "nuclear football".)

But if there were ever a Hero for the ages, Petrov was it. Achilles can take a hike.

Re: Keep the nuclear launch codes in an innocent volunteer's chest-cavity (2015)

#19

Post by ncmncm »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #17
ncmncm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was supposed to be a code needed to arm the nuclear weapons mounted to the missiles. (It would be sort-of-pointless to launch a missile with warheads that would not pop.) But it was a scam, an attempt to reassure people that the generals couldn't start a war all by themselves, from a time when politicians were thought not to be even more insane than any general. Nowadays we rely on the generals to be less batshit…

In the UK, there's a similar thing with the royalty. The military swear loyalty to the crown, not to the government. If, perish the thought, the public elected an incompetent malingering buffoon into the office of Prime Minister [cough], who then ordered the military to do something batshit crazy, the officers could ask the Queen (or whoever is monarch if she ever gives up) for confirmation. If she declined to confir…

Indications are that that particular PM is not the buffoon he plays, but an extremely cynical man who has always got tremendous mileage from pretending to be it.

That is not to indicate he is not, in fact, a different kind of buffoon. But if he is, we don't know what kind.

Re: Keep the nuclear launch codes in an innocent volunteer's chest-cavity (2015)

#20

Post by stopping »

ncmncm wrote: post #2

For the past multiple decades the "launch code" was known throughout the officer corps to be, simply, 00000000000000000. I.e., the whole "nuclear football" scheme was a PR stunt. There is no reason to think its substance has changed.

This is essentially false. There are several redundant safety and security mechanisms protecting nuclear weapons, one of which is the Permissive Action Link (essentially a combination lock on the warhead). This is the component in question which once had the alleged code of 00000000: https://web.archive.org/web/20120511191600/http://www.cdi.or...

The "nuclear football" is a completely separate authentication mechanism for verifying a presidential order, and as far as we know uses codes that rotate on a daily basis.

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