No More Misunderstandings: Paraphrasing – When, Why, and How • Hacker News Board

Re: No More Misunderstandings: Paraphrasing – When, Why, and How

#11

Post by ipadmini » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 8:53 PM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #5

I know the examples in the article are just for illustration, but man that would get annoying pretty fast - common sense scaling back would make it better, but then once again, is everyone on the same page then? And then we have the non-verbal world, like internet forums where tremendous amounts of interpersonal communication (and misunderstanding, leading to social disharmony) take place millions (billions?) of time…

You can get to a point where you don't need to paraphrase, even when clarifying important details, but that usually happens when you've worked with someone for so long that you understand the intent behind their words close to perfectly.

Resolving misunderstandings on the internet is a good question -- it should be easier given that folks can usually edit what they want to say before publishing, and readers can read and re-read what's written. The __intent to understand__ seems to be the key thing in resolving misunderstandings here, both in online and in verbal communication

Re: No More Misunderstandings: Paraphrasing – When, Why, and How

#12

Post by kthejoker2 » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 8:57 PM UTC

Can someone give me a TLDR?

Just kidding - though I will say this type of behavior can sometimes fall somewhere between "Tricks to Sound Smarter at Meetings" and "what gives people feelings of power", so don't misuse it or misconstrue it being used on you as solely a positive force for understanding.

Two big takeaways (see? paraphrasing!):

Your tone should convey the desire to clarify and understand what the speaker said. If you don't have this desire, don't fake it.

“Studies in labor-management negotiations demonstrate that the time required to reach conflict resolution is cut in half when each negotiator agrees, before responding, to accurately repeat what the previous speaker had said.” - Marshall B. Rosenberg in Nonviolent Communication.

My tldr Paraphrasing saves time, which people value more than money.

Re: No More Misunderstandings: Paraphrasing – When, Why, and How

#13

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 8:59 PM UTC

vsri wrote: post #8

The author here seems to be using "paraphrase" to mean mean both "mirroring" (repeat back using speaker's words) and "paraphrasing" (repeat back using listener's words). I think there are contexts when each is appropriate. For example, if I (speaker) am giving you (listener) instructions, it's good for you to paraphrase. That shows me how you are interpreting my language and that allows me to clarify. Mirroring doesn…

> They are using speech, in a sense, to think.

Oh yes, indeed they are. I never truly understood why some people close to me would just dump random issues at me, repeatedly, and actively refuse any attempt at guiding the conversation towards a possible solution. I knew I was supposed to handle it by emphasizing and letting them vent out, but I never could quite understand the frame of mind that goes behind this talking to vent out...

...until recently, during one of such conversations, hearing about the same problem for the 10th time this month, it clicked: I realized that they're doing the exact same thing I do with "brain dump" text files - up to the same phrasing, and "melody" of speech. Those people are just unloading their train of thought to sort it out, and the listener's role is just to be there and pay attention.

(I say "those people" not as a negative, but only because I'm not like that; I think I've lost the ability to use talking to think when I learned to use a text editor for that purpose.)

Re: No More Misunderstandings: Paraphrasing – When, Why, and How

#14

Post by _y5hn » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 9:46 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #13

vsri wrote: post #8

The author here seems to be using "paraphrase" to mean mean both "mirroring" (repeat back using speaker's words) and "paraphrasing" (repeat back using listener's words). I think there are contexts when each is appropriate. For example, if I (speaker) am giving you (listener) instructions, it's good for you to paraphrase. That shows me how you are interpreting my language and that allows me to clarify. Mirroring doesn…

> They are using speech, in a sense, to think. Oh yes, indeed they are. I never truly understood why some people close to me would just dump random issues at me, repeatedly, and actively refuse any attempt at guiding the conversation towards a possible solution. I knew I was supposed to handle it by emphasizing and letting them vent out, but I never could quite understand the frame of mind that goes behind this talki…

If the issue is unresolved and emotional, it will be repeated.

If the issue is emotional or unresolved, it will fester.

If it's resolved, blame has been assigned.

It's how you are treated that may or may not make it worthwhile.

Re: No More Misunderstandings: Paraphrasing – When, Why, and How

#15

Post by rcoveson » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #5

I know the examples in the article are just for illustration, but man that would get annoying pretty fast - common sense scaling back would make it better, but then once again, is everyone on the same page then? And then we have the non-verbal world, like internet forums where tremendous amounts of interpersonal communication (and misunderstanding, leading to social disharmony) take place millions (billions?) of time…

> Teammate: Would you mind sending over this quarter’s product roadmap?

>

> Me: I see, so you want me to………sorry, could you repeat that?

>

> Teammate: Would you mind sending over this quarter’s product roadmap?

>

> Me: You want me to send over this quarter’s product roadmap. Yes, will do!

If I heard this exchange out of context I would sincerely assume it was between a human and a digital assistant circa 2015.

Re: No More Misunderstandings: Paraphrasing – When, Why, and How

#16

Post by _y5hn » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 9:56 PM UTC

lkbm wrote: post #7

NikolaNovak wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of disagree. If I "parrot" (Accurately repeat) the original statement, it does not in any way demonstrate understanding, only memorization/note-taking. Restating, summarizing, or paraphrasing, shows that I understand sufficiently that I can describe it in my own words rather than memorization. Day in and day out I find that my team members who accurately repeat a statement of problem or solution, may not have…

Agreed. My coworker recently shared[0] with us, which is largely jsut an expanded part of the TPS section. "Yes, I'll send over the TPS report this evening" doesn't solve the confusion around what "TPS" stands for. If nothing else, paraphrasing helps you disambiguate term you didn't consciously recognize as ambiguous. Maybe the other party should have used less ambiguous terms, but "well the other person caused the p…

I know it may frustrate at times, but instead of relaying instruction, I ask questions and challenge assumptions, though only if any ambiguity remains. Covering it up is the worse option.

Re: No More Misunderstandings: Paraphrasing – When, Why, and How

#17

Post by mistermann » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 9:56 PM UTC

ipadmini wrote: post #11

mistermann wrote: post #5

I know the examples in the article are just for illustration, but man that would get annoying pretty fast - common sense scaling back would make it better, but then once again, is everyone on the same page then? And then we have the non-verbal world, like internet forums where tremendous amounts of interpersonal communication (and misunderstanding, leading to social disharmony) take place millions (billions?) of time…

You can get to a point where you don't need to paraphrase, even when clarifying important details, but that usually happens when you've worked with someone for so long that you understand the intent behind their words close to perfectly. Resolving misunderstandings on the internet is a good question -- it should be easier given that folks can usually edit what they want to say before publishing, and readers can read…

> The __intent to understand__ seems to be the key thing in resolving misunderstandings here, both in online and in verbal communication

Intent to understand is but one of many possible points of failure. The world is infinitely complex, but our minds have this nice feature where they hide the vast majority of that complexity from us. The problem is though, the simplification process is vastly different for each person, not to mention they are not working from the same set of data.

So when an internet discussion takes place, particularly on special topics like politics, the odds of each person considering the topic from the same perspective (with the same desired outcomes, etc) is very low. Add on top of that the fact that most people seem to lack realtime awareness of the simplification process running in their heads, leaving each participant in the discussion with the false impression that they are talking about the(!) facts(!), when the reality is very different.

Situations like this is where some variation of the recommended approach in TFA could perhaps come in handy, but people seem to be not terribly fond of speaking precisely and accurately, especially when it comes to politics.

Re: No More Misunderstandings: Paraphrasing – When, Why, and How

#18

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 10:03 PM UTC

Anyone remember Donald Rumsfeld's style?

He weaponized paraphrasing.

A reporter would ask "Have you contacted the tribal chiefs, to work out a plan?"

He would respond with "Have I given the enemy our strategic planning brief? Lord, no!"

Re: No More Misunderstandings: Paraphrasing – When, Why, and How

#19

Post by null_deref » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 10:23 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #13

vsri wrote: post #8

The author here seems to be using "paraphrase" to mean mean both "mirroring" (repeat back using speaker's words) and "paraphrasing" (repeat back using listener's words). I think there are contexts when each is appropriate. For example, if I (speaker) am giving you (listener) instructions, it's good for you to paraphrase. That shows me how you are interpreting my language and that allows me to clarify. Mirroring doesn…

> They are using speech, in a sense, to think. Oh yes, indeed they are. I never truly understood why some people close to me would just dump random issues at me, repeatedly, and actively refuse any attempt at guiding the conversation towards a possible solution. I knew I was supposed to handle it by emphasizing and letting them vent out, but I never could quite understand the frame of mind that goes behind this talki…

So you just dump your thoughts into a text file, and that's helps you clarify them and clean your head?

Re: No More Misunderstandings: Paraphrasing – When, Why, and How

#20

Post by ipadmini » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 10:31 PM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #17

ipadmini wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get to a point where you don't need to paraphrase, even when clarifying important details, but that usually happens when you've worked with someone for so long that you understand the intent behind their words close to perfectly. Resolving misunderstandings on the internet is a good question -- it should be easier given that folks can usually edit what they want to say before publishing, and readers can read…

> The __intent to understand__ seems to be the key thing in resolving misunderstandings here, both in online and in verbal communication Intent to understand is but one of many possible points of failure. The world is infinitely complex, but our minds have this nice feature where they hide the vast majority of that complexity from us. The problem is though, the simplification process is vastly different for each pers…

I think the intent to understand isn't a point of failure, but a potential solution (if it goes hand in hand with humility) to the problems you mentioned -- the one where we all come with our own programming and are all susceptible to various biases that further entrench our existing beliefs, and the one where we are unaware of this programming. Ideally we're all rationalists who can hear each other out and come to an understanding, but it's hard to think rationally about politics. (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/9weLK2AJ9JEt2Tt8f/politics-i...)