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The curious case of Romanian broadband

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Re: The curious case of Romanian broadband

#11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Bucharest a couple of years ago and used wired broadband in an apartment. It was good - not terribly faster than what I get here, or at least ... not faster such that I'd notice. I suspect the price was cheaper, although unsure what the 'big mac price' might be for people who live there day to day. I have a 200 down / 20 up connection at my office for $80/month - roughly the same at home for ~$50/month. At h…

I think that exceptionalism rote taught explains a lot of America's inherent conservatism - why change if you're already the best?

We’re conservative because we’re rich and comfortable. We have the highest disposable income in the OECD: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/teaser/14773.jpeg. The median household income of a married couple with kids is $95,000. And the taxes are extremely low in that bracket. Our unemployment rate in the midst of Trump’s botched handling of COVID is less than what France’s unemployment rate is in a normal year.

Even when you hear complaints about things like healthcare, the debates are more about universal coverage than the quality or affordability of care itself. Americans are overwhelmingly satisfied with their own healthcare: https://news.gallup.com/poll/245195/americans-rate-healthcar.... (And, Americans being preternaturally optimistic, just assign less value to the security of a safety net in the case they lose their job, etc.)

Americans live in houses far larger than the average European: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/7ei5f4/com.... We have more TVs, more cars, etc.

It’s easy to assume that Americans are just ignorant and irrational. But Americans know that Europe has a bunch of services we don’t, and they pay much higher taxes in return. Democrats make that comparison all the time. People are aware of it. But the fact is that the current system works pretty well for your typical voter. A flatter society with more social services would be better for a lot of people. However, your average suburban married couple would take a significant hit to their standard of living if they lived in France instead.

Re: The curious case of Romanian broadband

#12
post #5

This was pretty much the case across Eastern Europe. In Kiev, I ordered an internet connection and to my surprise I was told that it was all done and ready to go without any visits to my apartment. I was surprised. The wall outlet was an Ethernet port. No TV cable. No phone line. Direct RJ45. Later I learned that everything is in the central wiring closet somewhere in the building. And many buildings are just connect…

> The wall outlet was an Ethernet port. Huh, never thought of this as weird. I remember using a dial-up modem in the early 2000s in Romania, but since then I've just had a normal Ethernet port coming out of the wall everywhere, including Western Europe.

In North America you get either a TV Cable (coaxial) outlet, which then needs a cable modem (DOCSIS).

Or you get a phone outlet, for which you need a DSL modem.

For both cases, back in the day, you still needed a router. Nowadays it’s usually a modem-router combo, and usually they are terrible.

Everyone always has a rats nest of wires somewhere behind a TV or couch. :D

Re: The curious case of Romanian broadband

#13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that exceptionalism rote taught explains a lot of America's inherent conservatism - why change if you're already the best?

We’re conservative because we’re rich and comfortable. We have the highest disposable income in the OECD: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/teaser/14773.jpeg . The median household income of a married couple with kids is $95,000. And the taxes are extremely low in that bracket. Our unemployment rate in the midst of Trump’s botched handling of COVID is less than what France’s unemployment rate is in a normal…

> We’re conservative because we’re rich and comfortable.

Some of you are.

You're only surpassed by Romania, Costa Rica, and South Africa in this chart: https://data.oecd.org/inequality/poverty-rate.htm

Romania, Italy, South Africa in this one: https://data.oecd.org/inequality/poverty-gap.htm#indicator-c...

Doing better in this one, in that now you're behind Bulgaria, Turkey, Chile, Costa Rica and South Africa. https://data.oecd.org/inequality/income-inequality.htm#indic...

I'm assuming that disposable household income per capita doesn't quite capture the severely unequal distributions of disposable household income.

> Americans live in houses far larger than the average European: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/7ei5f4/com.... We have more TVs, more cars, etc.

That's a cultural difference, not at all indicative of anything - European cities are typically built for denser living - far fewer McMansions, far more well built, sound proofed apartments with ample public transport networks, to the extent that one can work and live in a city without owning a car. Although there are a bunch of bicycles.

In fact, very few of my German colleagues own cars because they have no reason to, as they all live in major cities. If they need a car for a holiday, they rent one.

> Americans are overwhelmingly satisfied with their own healthcare

Which is exactly the point I was making, I mean, the country with one of the lowest passport holding rates doesn't really have much to compare their health system to.

Re: The curious case of Romanian broadband

#14
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that exceptionalism rote taught explains a lot of America's inherent conservatism - why change if you're already the best?

We’re conservative because we’re rich and comfortable. We have the highest disposable income in the OECD: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/teaser/14773.jpeg . The median household income of a married couple with kids is $95,000. And the taxes are extremely low in that bracket. Our unemployment rate in the midst of Trump’s botched handling of COVID is less than what France’s unemployment rate is in a normal…

[deleted]

Re: The curious case of Romanian broadband

#15
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re conservative because we’re rich and comfortable. We have the highest disposable income in the OECD: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/teaser/14773.jpeg . The median household income of a married couple with kids is $95,000. And the taxes are extremely low in that bracket. Our unemployment rate in the midst of Trump’s botched handling of COVID is less than what France’s unemployment rate is in a normal…

> We’re conservative because we’re rich and comfortable. Some of you are. You're only surpassed by Romania, Costa Rica, and South Africa in this chart: https://data.oecd.org/inequality/poverty-rate.htm Romania, Italy, South Africa in this one: https://data.oecd.org/inequality/poverty-gap.htm#indicator-c... Doing better in this one, in that now you're behind Bulgaria, Turkey, Chile, Costa Rica and South Africa. https:…

Your “cultural difference” point is a good one.

More cars and more house and things many want, and I find it baffling. My measure is that I want to vacuum the house from one power point, and not worry what happens to the car.

Re: The curious case of Romanian broadband

#16
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that exceptionalism rote taught explains a lot of America's inherent conservatism - why change if you're already the best?

We’re conservative because we’re rich and comfortable. We have the highest disposable income in the OECD: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/teaser/14773.jpeg . The median household income of a married couple with kids is $95,000. And the taxes are extremely low in that bracket. Our unemployment rate in the midst of Trump’s botched handling of COVID is less than what France’s unemployment rate is in a normal…

Do all of these cars and TVs make you happy? Rhetorical question; if they did you wouldn't need more more more.

A minority is rich and comfortable. This elite uses propaganda rhetoric such as polarisation by a platform such as Fox News to manipulate people into a political candidate which, ultimately, does not serve in their benefit but in the benefit of the elite majority.

Then there's the other party who are only marginally better. The poor get to pick the best option of two terrible options, and they could have achieved so much more in their life with just a minor bit of compassion from said elite. If greed is one of the seven sins, none of these elites are the devout Christians they claim to be.

I normally don't speak out about this; thanks for the inspirational post.

Re: The curious case of Romanian broadband

#17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The wall outlet was an Ethernet port. Huh, never thought of this as weird. I remember using a dial-up modem in the early 2000s in Romania, but since then I've just had a normal Ethernet port coming out of the wall everywhere, including Western Europe.

In North America you get either a TV Cable (coaxial) outlet, which then needs a cable modem (DOCSIS). Or you get a phone outlet, for which you need a DSL modem. For both cases, back in the day, you still needed a router. Nowadays it’s usually a modem-router combo, and usually they are terrible. Everyone always has a rats nest of wires somewhere behind a TV or couch. :D

This is the case even in eastern europe. Especially in older cities there was big rush to connect people with TV Cable in 90s and that gets reused for internet.

I suspect connections built in recent years are ethernet and if you want TV they do in through that other way atound.

Re: The curious case of Romanian broadband

#18
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The wall outlet was an Ethernet port. Huh, never thought of this as weird. I remember using a dial-up modem in the early 2000s in Romania, but since then I've just had a normal Ethernet port coming out of the wall everywhere, including Western Europe.

In North America you get either a TV Cable (coaxial) outlet, which then needs a cable modem (DOCSIS). Or you get a phone outlet, for which you need a DSL modem. For both cases, back in the day, you still needed a router. Nowadays it’s usually a modem-router combo, and usually they are terrible. Everyone always has a rats nest of wires somewhere behind a TV or couch. :D

Same in other Western countries like The Netherlands and Germany. The cable network is from the time cable TV was rolled out (70s/80s). The phone network is older, and also more unreliable. VDSL and DOCSIS are mostly FttC though.

I believe EU demands people to be allowed to freely pick their own router. Whatever brand it is and whoever owns it you can put it near your demarcation point (in Dutch called ISRA for phone, AOP for cable, and FTU (English acronym) for fiber). This is usually in the same vicinity where gas/water/electricity enters house. From there you can wire your house with ethernet. Maybe add in a WLAN repeater here and there, proper cable management, and you're done.

Re: The curious case of Romanian broadband

#19
post #6
post #2

As a Romanian person I am baffled hearing the speed and data cap woes of American people. I always saw America as superior and something to aspire to as a kid. What your ISPs are doing is pure robbery and I am surprised there's not more backlash about this.

I was in Bucharest a couple of years ago and used wired broadband in an apartment. It was good - not terribly faster than what I get here, or at least ... not faster such that I'd notice. I suspect the price was cheaper, although unsure what the 'big mac price' might be for people who live there day to day. I have a 200 down / 20 up connection at my office for $80/month - roughly the same at home for ~$50/month. At h…

About pricing in .ro: I have a business link with 1000 down / 200 up and static public IP for $25. A similar speed home link is $9. Adjusted for big mac index (2.5x) they would be around $60 / $22.

Re: The curious case of Romanian broadband

#20
post #10

The final digs about Verizon Fios in Hell's Kitchen are pretty fucking rich, if you ask me. There's no need for "telephone poles." That is complete nonsense, not least because Verizon has the monopoly on underground conduit in Manhattan. They literally own the Empire City Subway, the ostensibly vendor-neutral central conduit system that runs under every single street in Hell's Kitchen. For some "mysterious" reason, n…

There is a lawsuit from the City of New York against Verizon, but I suspect the fight is long and hard for this one. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/04/nyc-b...
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