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Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

lowtechmagazine.com

11–20 of 95 posts

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#11
Slightly of-topic: compressed air is the preferred source of power for the tools of Amish people, since their religion doesn't allow them to use electricity or internal combustion engines.

https://www.cottagecraftworks.com/home-goods/self-sufficient...

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#12
post #5

For fixed-site applications of sufficient land area and scale, it's difficult to beat pumped-storage hydroelectricity (PSH). The round-trip efficiency is around or above 70%, the same or better than CAES. CAES is probably best used in applications similar to flywheel (FES), away from occupied areas.

Do you have any recommendations on how to learn more about this? My brother has a steep hill on his property and Ive been wondering about the feasibility of PSH. How high the tank should be, the equipment, the power output.

This isn't quite what you're after, but it's a pleasent read. https://ludens.cl/paradise/turbine/turbine.html there have been some discussions on here about it too.

It at least gets you all the right words to start googling for turbine options which helped me to do some back of the envelope math. It's a steeper hill than seemed feasible to me.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#13

Some guys I know built a full-sized car, with the engine built with Lego and powered by compressed air. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ObE4_nMCjE

There was an actual car project in India to develop a compressed air powered car https://www.downtoearth.org.in/blog/air/compressed-air-vehic...

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#14
post #10

I'll admit this article describes a much less bad system than what I envision when someone mentions compressed air energy storage. On a side note, I wonder what the state of research is on reducing the embodied energy in li-ion battery production. The mentioned figure in the article is surprisingly high (2-10 times the total energy the battery will store - presumably they mean over its lifetime), which now that I thi…

The 1126 MJ / kwh given at https://www.mdpi.com/2313-0105/5/2/48 puts it at about 312 charge cycles.

Certainly not 10 times the total energy the kwh of battery capacity will store. Probably not more energy than the battery will store.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#15
post #10

I'll admit this article describes a much less bad system than what I envision when someone mentions compressed air energy storage. On a side note, I wonder what the state of research is on reducing the embodied energy in li-ion battery production. The mentioned figure in the article is surprisingly high (2-10 times the total energy the battery will store - presumably they mean over its lifetime), which now that I thi…

I'm highly skeptical of those figures, and considering that there are trillions of dollars of corporate interest wanting grid storage and electric cars to fail, maybe you should be too.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#16
The last example, using multiple small pressure containers, seems to get a hugely better energy density than the other examples, and starts to seem realistic for domestic storage.

Are the figures correct, I couldn't find much follow up to that study?

I can imagine small-scale CAES being ideal where there is also a cooling load (eg humid tropics), since the expanding air will be cool and dry.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#17
post #10

I'll admit this article describes a much less bad system than what I envision when someone mentions compressed air energy storage. On a side note, I wonder what the state of research is on reducing the embodied energy in li-ion battery production. The mentioned figure in the article is surprisingly high (2-10 times the total energy the battery will store - presumably they mean over its lifetime), which now that I thi…

That doesn't sound right to me.. the amount of energy a Tesla battery could store over its lifetime is up in the hundreds of megawatt hours range.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#18
This article seems to assume we'd convert the compressed air to electricity, but I could think of a bunch of applications that could use mechanical air power instead.

Blenders, washers, dryers, dish washers, garage door openers. Basically anything that uses a motor.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#19

This article seems to assume we'd convert the compressed air to electricity, but I could think of a bunch of applications that could use mechanical air power instead. Blenders, washers, dryers, dish washers, garage door openers. Basically anything that uses a motor.

Is your blender powered by a hand crank?

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#20
While I'm a pretty big fan of low tech solutions, I'd just like to point out that electrochemical hydrogen compressors can basically already do this, but better. 80% round trip compression efficiency, up to 700 bar compression, no moving parts, and massively long lifetimes (in the 30-50 year range). The fact that the compression medium (hydrogen) is also an energy storage medium is just a cherry on top. It's just a matter of price coming down for 700 bar pressure vessels.
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