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Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

paulgraham.com

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Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#11

Post by sasaf5 »

krapp wrote: post #6
sasaf5 wrote: post #5

Another reason why nerd groups are ostracized is envy. In the ocean of boredom that is high school, one group manages to create an island of fantasy and computer programming. While everyone is marred by memorization and popularity contests, one group is having a blast killing imaginary monsters with throws of D20s. That is certainly to be treated with envy.

I hate to break it to you, but no one envied the nerds and D&D kids in high school. No one wanted to be one of the deviant outcasts who spent their time in the basement rather than having a normal social life with status and friends and sex. It's only been relatively recently, with the popularity of the web, that many aspects of former "nerd" culture such as anime and D&D (and of course, using a computer to begin wit…

I know where this frustration comes from, so in one hand I empathize with your rebuttal. In another hand, we did have our own social life and status based on having fun with knowledge (sex though, not so easy). We also exchanged activities with nerd groups of other grades whereas socializing with other grades was anathema for popular people (shame on them).

I say envy because there was always one or two popular ones that would circle around us just a bit closer, curious about what could be so fun about those maps and dices and lines of code. A few came close enough to fall in our gravity well. This was all at a time when computers were solely used to type your assignments on.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#12

Post by Barrin92 »

lmilcin wrote: post #8
Barrin92 wrote: post #7

eh I hate this kind of Ender's game self-victimisation. Nerds aren't unpopular because they're too smart for school and all the athletic jocks envy them, they're unpopular because they act like nerds. That's not a passive thing happening to someone, it's something that people actively act like. Obviously one can be highly intelligent in school and not be nerdy, everyone knows people who are intelligent as well as pop…

Struck a nerve? Not a nerd? Confusion about terms? Most people spend large part of their effort on popularity contest. Nerd is somebody that even if he/she would like to take part in the contest they value other, more intellectual exercises. They end up underdeveloped socially because they don't have as much experience as somebody that spends most of their time partying, socializing or avoiding study or work to be ab…

> Nerd is somebody that even if he/she would like to take part in the contest they value other, more intellectual exercises

No, nerds are the people who lost the general popularity contest and then started one in a parallel universe. Almost nobody is more competitive about status than subcultures internally, almost like a middle-finger towards society at large.

This shows in video game competitions, programming language and editor wars, literal startup company competitions. I mean nobody is more vicious in their status fight than the stereotypical nerd-turned-techbro fighting for the attention they didn't get in high school. A lot of famous tech people literally fight like they went into a sort of delayed puberty in their 20s and 30s.

This comes through not just in this essay but a lot of Paul Graham stuff, the kind of "you bullied us in high school and now we're rich!" subtext.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#13

Post by playingchanges »

As someone who self identifies as a nerd, and works exclusively with ‘nerds’ but is actually ‘popular’ irl I think this is an easy one.

Nerds are unpopular because they are mostly introverts. Mostly not that fun to be around unless you like having super deep conversations about a specific topic.

Most people don’t like doing that.

The key to being popular is to meet ‘normal’ people where they are and intentionally engage in non intellectual activities that everyone enjoys. Sports, music, beer, etc.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#14

Post by krapp »

sasaf5 wrote: post #11
krapp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to break it to you, but no one envied the nerds and D&D kids in high school. No one wanted to be one of the deviant outcasts who spent their time in the basement rather than having a normal social life with status and friends and sex. It's only been relatively recently, with the popularity of the web, that many aspects of former "nerd" culture such as anime and D&D (and of course, using a computer to begin wit…

I know where this frustration comes from, so in one hand I empathize with your rebuttal. In another hand, we did have our own social life and status based on having fun with knowledge (sex though, not so easy). We also exchanged activities with nerd groups of other grades whereas socializing with other grades was anathema for popular people (shame on them). I say envy because there was always one or two popular ones…

>I say envy because there was always one or two popular ones that would circle around us just a bit closer, curious about what could be so fun about those maps and dices and lines of code. A few came close enough to fall in our gravity well.

Sure, but let's be fair - that was the exception, not the rule. It just means it was possible, albeit not as socially acceptable, for popular people to have nerdy interests. But that doesn't mean they felt envy for nerd' lives and social circles when compared to their own.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#15

Post by wrp »

From my dim memories of high school, the main factors were actually personal hygiene and lack of fashion sense. The problem with these kinds of discussions is that adults tend to attribute adult-like reasoning to teenagers. You just don't remember how shallow you were.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#16

Post by tipsytoad »

Ok as someone who enjoys doing 'nerdy' things but would count myself as 'popular' etc this article is deluded on the ways popularity and school operate. Noone cares if you enjoy programming or computers as long as you act relatively 'normal'. It's not that nerds care about intelligence more than popularity (trust me most aren't) it's just that the nerds have already lost the popularity race by being socially awkward individuals that can't hold a conversation about any topics other than very specific subjects to save their life.

I've found nerds as a teenager to be one of the most judging, toxic group of people who actually care far more about popularity than anyone else at school. (How many other groups made lists of tables by popularity?)

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#17

Post by sasaf5 »

krapp wrote: post #14
sasaf5 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know where this frustration comes from, so in one hand I empathize with your rebuttal. In another hand, we did have our own social life and status based on having fun with knowledge (sex though, not so easy). We also exchanged activities with nerd groups of other grades whereas socializing with other grades was anathema for popular people (shame on them). I say envy because there was always one or two popular ones…

>I say envy because there was always one or two popular ones that would circle around us just a bit closer, curious about what could be so fun about those maps and dices and lines of code. A few came close enough to fall in our gravity well. Sure, but let's be fair - that was the exception, not the rule. It just means it was possible, albeit not as socially acceptable, for popular people to have nerdy interests. But…

Yes, it was definitely an exception.

I dare to disagree again with you regarding envy. Mostly because (and I am being biased here) I felt that I had more fun than the other groups. I was building a radio with my friends, they were pecking at each other at basketball, forever busy at keeping their ranks.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#18

Post by krapp »

sasaf5 wrote: post #17
krapp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I say envy because there was always one or two popular ones that would circle around us just a bit closer, curious about what could be so fun about those maps and dices and lines of code. A few came close enough to fall in our gravity well. Sure, but let's be fair - that was the exception, not the rule. It just means it was possible, albeit not as socially acceptable, for popular people to have nerdy interests. But…

Yes, it was definitely an exception. I dare to disagree again with you regarding envy. Mostly because (and I am being biased here) I felt that I had more fun than the other groups. I was building a radio with my friends, they were pecking at each other at basketball, forever busy at keeping their ranks.

>I was building a radio with my friends, they were pecking at each other at basketball, forever busy at keeping their ranks.

It seems as though you're assuming they didn't enjoy basketball as much as you enjoyed building radios, or that their friendships weren't as fulfilling as yours. There's no need to diminish other people to validate yourself.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#20

Post by sasaf5 »

krapp wrote: post #18
sasaf5 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it was definitely an exception. I dare to disagree again with you regarding envy. Mostly because (and I am being biased here) I felt that I had more fun than the other groups. I was building a radio with my friends, they were pecking at each other at basketball, forever busy at keeping their ranks.

>I was building a radio with my friends, they were pecking at each other at basketball, forever busy at keeping their ranks. It seems as though you're assuming they didn't enjoy basketball as much as you enjoyed building radios, or that their friendships weren't as fulfilling as yours. There's no need to diminish other people to validate yourself.

I do assume that their friendships weren't as fulfilling as mine, considering the high rates of violence among them, and the speed with which they broke their friendships. I don't criticize them for validation though, as my group and activities provided me with plenty.
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