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To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

bostonreview.net

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Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#11

Post by disposekinetics »

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #6

The article yada-yada's over all the things that require constant electricity. What about garage startups? What about people who need some sort of pager charged? (Emergency responders, including troubleshooters for companies) What about disabled people, plagued by anxiety, PTSD or Alzheimers? What about the absolutly ridiciously look the country implementing this first would have from the rest of the world? Who decid…

As someone who, due to disability, needs an assistive device this is asking me to give up the ability to participate in society, and probably an early grave.

Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#12

Post by makomk »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #4

It is a source of great anxiety for me that our power will go out on a -40 day and take our furnace with it. I suppose that a battery, problematic as they are, could help some of that, but really for most of winter it's just not an option for the northern areas of the world.

This is my big worry about the move towards renewable power: it seems to involve simultaneously making everyone entirely reliant on electricity for critical needs like heating, cooking and transport which were often powered by at least partially grid-independent (but CO2-emitting) sources, at the same time as making grid power less reliable. A battery might be enough to keep a primarily fossil-fueled furnace up and running but they're meant to be going away. Also, peak power demand is absolutely going to be in the middle of a really nasty cold snap in parts of the world that require heavy use of heating.

Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#14

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

makomk wrote: post #12
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #4

It is a source of great anxiety for me that our power will go out on a -40 day and take our furnace with it. I suppose that a battery, problematic as they are, could help some of that, but really for most of winter it's just not an option for the northern areas of the world.

This is my big worry about the move towards renewable power: it seems to involve simultaneously making everyone entirely reliant on electricity for critical needs like heating, cooking and transport which were often powered by at least partially grid-independent (but CO2-emitting) sources, at the same time as making grid power less reliable. A battery might be enough to keep a primarily fossil-fueled furnace up and r…

It already does set new records with cold snaps without the requirement to electrically heat [1].

[1]https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/alberta-sets-new-record-for-peak...

Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#16

Post by jk700 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

I went to the Dominican Republic in the 1990s when the power grid was overloaded. They'd have rolling blackouts in the capitol, first the lights would go out, but the generators would kick in and the hotel you are in would light up, and the houses of rich people, everybody else would be in the dark. The glass factories, the microchip factories, infrastructure that runs aviation, etc. are a different business which ca…

> It can't possibly be economically competitive if it is driving a steam turbine

What do you mean by "economic competition"? Generally speaking with current technology there is no power cheaper than nuclear power. In that sense it is the most competitive power there is.

But not for private investment funds looking to own power generation and secure huge returns in relatively short term. They'd rather see more expensive inferior dirtier climate-changing power generation they can profit from, not government owned nuclear they can't ever compete with. And in that sense no project with long term investments in science, education, infrastructure will ever be competitive for capitalists. So does it really matter then?

Luckily not everyone is fond of capitalists. Ukraine, for example, recently decided to go against certain capitalist run countries pushing it to limit nuclear and finish building new reactors, because other power is not actually economically competitive. If Ukraine can, surely most of the world can do it too.

Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#17

Post by extra88 »

AftHurrahWinch wrote: post #10
gruez wrote: post #7

What's the author proposing? That we voluntarily abstain from using electricity during certain times, or the government shut down electricity usage to households during certain times? The former is the equivalent of the government telling people to "turn down your thermostat" or "don't drive SUVs". That's basically useless because most people don't care. The latter wouldn't work because most people place high value o…

Anecdata, but some people do listen. My grandmother still keeps her thermostat at 65 - explicitly because Jimmy Carter asked her to in 1977. I think institutional appeals from a conservation and energy-independence mindset can work on some people, though they are surely ignored by many more.

Another example of relative success: I don't know how it started but I and many others still remember to cut the plastic rings on six-packs before throwing them out to avoid turtles from getting stuck in them if they end up in the ocean.

Your grandmother's actions have been more consequential than mine, my discarded plastic is extremely unlikely to end up in the ocean and if it did, it would still look like a jellyfish that a creature would try to eat.

Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#20

Post by turtlebits »

The first step is to have people realize how much power they are consuming. Maybe sell power in blocks that have to be refilled.

I had a shed built on some cheap off grid land as my office. Bought 100ah 12v battery and 300w of solar. It’s surprising how little power use I can manage when I see the power draw and battery level. I’m not in the greatest place for solar.

It’s also given me an appreciation for how much power different devices can draw.

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