On that subject, from 24 years ago: > I need from you a few paragraphs describing your personal interests, > advising style or philosophy, background and professional interests. > ... I'm preparing a document to give the freshman for them to use to > select an advisor. I need to receive your info by early next week. I was born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia, majored in mathematics and Computer Science at Yale Univers…
is there any more context to this? All I could find is this: https://www.ccs.neu.edu/~shivers/advisor-stmt-original.txt
Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors
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Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors
#12> Too often I have been told to be proud of the great work I am a part of, as if this should outweigh the negative and harmful things myself and others have experienced. Actually, that's how it works in the real world from my experience. Most geniuses have terrible shadows that are as dark and long as they are brilliant and tall. Most of us feel really lucky to get things done and be a part of something, and when we…
Even so, I want to say explicitly that the idea that we should allow geniuses to abuse us and harass us because they are geniuses is dangerous and misguided nonsense. Being smart is not an excuse to behave poorly. With rare exception, producing something great for the world, or believing you are working on something great, is not justification for hurting others or not taking into consideration their needs or feelings, especially when they are working for you to try to help you.
I also think that your reduction of 100-hour-minimum work weeks, no free time, emotional manipulation to prevent reporting, and frequent unnecessary cruelty disguised as "advice" or "help" to "unkind comments" is absurd. If people chose this lifestyle, knowing what they were getting into, that's one thing (and even then, it would still be dubious to demand it in the first place) - but clearly the author and their peers were mislead and manipulated into it.
Finally, what is illegal and what is immoral are not the same thing, and we can and should hold people, as a society, to a higher standard than "guess they didn't break the law" when we put them in positions of power over other people.
Edited to add: I had the pleasure of working as an undergrad with several professors and PHD students in a research capacity. Some of these people, I would absolutely consider "geniuses" in terms of both intellect and achievements. I still speak with many of them, and consider some of them good friends. I never, not once, observed or heard of people being treated in the ways described in this article (nor was I myself), despite the relatively prestigious people I worked with and their relatively prestigious work. It is not that way everywhere.
Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors
#13Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors
#14> Too often I have been told to be proud of the great work I am a part of, as if this should outweigh the negative and harmful things myself and others have experienced. Actually, that's how it works in the real world from my experience. Most geniuses have terrible shadows that are as dark and long as they are brilliant and tall. Most of us feel really lucky to get things done and be a part of something, and when we…
Sure, the real world sucks. I don't see that as a reason to prevent colleges from improving.
Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors
#15"how long you been working on this?"
"Almost 10 years."
"Seems really long."
"Yes, normally it's 5 years but I can't enough time to finish it. I'm always working on Prof. Engineer's research projects."
"I mean can't you just leave?"
"No, not at all. You are completely beholden to your advisor. Can't get money, lab time, assistants without them. I'd have to walk away from all my research."
I was gobsmacked. Professor Engineer was teaching a course I was taking, though he wouldn't recognize me in my shop bunny suit. His attitude towards students was nothing like his attitude towards his graduate researchers. This was not the first story I heard and I assumed that's how grad school worked.
Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors
#16Good advisors will probably have a few students who will speak up for them, and great advisors almost certainly will. In contrast, bad advisors will probably have a few students who give middling recommendations, cryptic comments, or outright warnings. Good departments typically have meet-the-current-students-without-faculty-present events to facilitate exactly this discussion. If the potential advisor does not happily put you in contact with current or recent students, that alone is a red flag.
This is not foolproof. Even a great advisor may have one bitter student, and a generally terrible advisor might still have some good student relationships. But having a bad advisor will make grad school so much harder. This is a situation where doing a bit of due diligence can have a huge impact.
I was lucky; I had a great advisor, and I was always happy to talk to potential students, since I wanted my advisor to have more good students. Talk to students!
Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors
#17MIT is FAR from the only offender here, so much so that I find it odd to be calling MIT out in particular. And abuse takes a lot of forms. My advisor once went eighteen months without ever laying eyes on one of his doctoral students.
I walked over to do that, discovering that he was actually going to happy hour at the airport, and from there India, and wouldn't be back for a month. Ended up getting locked out of classes as I couldn't register.
Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors
#18One kicked a PhD student out of her lab after he spoke to a local news reporter about his line of research without her approval. Not even a scientific article, just a personal interview. He started over in a new line of research.
Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors
#19Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors
#20On that subject, from 24 years ago: > I need from you a few paragraphs describing your personal interests, > advising style or philosophy, background and professional interests. > ... I'm preparing a document to give the freshman for them to use to > select an advisor. I need to receive your info by early next week. I was born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia, majored in mathematics and Computer Science at Yale Univers…
is there any more context to this? All I could find is this: https://www.ccs.neu.edu/~shivers/advisor-stmt-original.txt