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An open letter to the world - the war on education

fifteenandahalf.com

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Re: An open letter to the world - the war on education

#11
post #3

Insight: University fees for Students in the UK have risen from £3500 per year to either £6000 or a maximum of £9000 while the government has cut funding for teaching and research. Most universities have opted to charge the maximum £9000 per year to the surprise of the policymakers. These changes will arrive in 2012. The government also behind start up culture with startup Britain: http://www.startupbritain.org/ But…

Fellow UK resident here.

The political reasoning behind the hike in fees is to make young people think harder about whether a university degree is actually going to be useful to them in their career. It's fairly clear that vocational courses would benefit some people a lot more than theoretical/academic courses, and society would benefit from this too.

At the moment young people tend to go to university by default, and there were (until recently) frequent stories about universities offering nonsense degrees just so they can claim funding from the government. I can't blame the those students who, in the past, went to university for 3 years just to learn how to be independent, make some friends and party. I don't think they'll do it if the privilege costs them several thousand pounds.

However, our current government in the UK has signalled a change - there is a feeling that making university easy to go to has manipulated unemployment figures downwards and has not really had the desired effect that you might expect from higher education. Historically, university attendance was much lower - not because of a lack of "fairness" in society but because society accepted that only the brightest and most motivated went to such a place.

I'd prefer it if young people didn't have to pay money to go to university but it's in society's interest that those who do go are recognised as having gone there for the right reasons and are qualified to do something productive. If there's a price attached to a degree then universities will (presumably) try harder to ensure that the value they provide is comparable with the fees charged by other universities.

To the original poster I would say this: If you think you're smart then you might as well stick it out and get a degree, especially if you think you have a chance of going to a top UK university. You will find it very difficult to get a degree later in life when you have more responsibilities. Degrees are still cheap in the UK compared to the USA (especially if you think you will one day earn an above-average salary).

Re: An open letter to the world - the war on education

#12
post #3

Insight: University fees for Students in the UK have risen from £3500 per year to either £6000 or a maximum of £9000 while the government has cut funding for teaching and research. Most universities have opted to charge the maximum £9000 per year to the surprise of the policymakers. These changes will arrive in 2012. The government also behind start up culture with startup Britain: http://www.startupbritain.org/ But…

Scottish students don't pay any fees for attending any UK University.

NB I am Scottish, I didn't pay any fees when I went to University in the 80s but I still can't justify this current policy.

Re: An open letter to the world - the war on education

#13
post #4

College. The point isn't so much to pigeonhole oneself into a safe job at a big company but to take some liberal-arts courses to better oneself and to avoid becoming a one-dimensional human being.

Okay, seriously, how is this advice not a gigantic blatant lie? Read science fiction written by knowledgeable people who put their knowledge in the story, go to science fiction conventions, attend random lectures in your city, read history books you're actually interested in, read basic textbooks in a variety of fields, go to kink events and learn about anything that interests you, visit a foreign country and stay th…

First, the author is 16 years old. It matters. Yes, college is, all things being equal, a great venue to encounter a lot of opportunities to expand one's base of knowledge and depth of character.

Second, he lives in the UK. College won't run him American prices.

Third, I truly think it's irresponsible to advise to the general populace that they skip college. Going to college need not be a headlong dive into staggering debt. There are options to afford yourself an education without breaking yourself. The "$80,000" scenario for a bachelors degree is the worst-case one, "one of those things that is [almost totally] false but which everyone repeats anyway."

I'm not sure I necessarily agree that liberal arts courses is a worthwhile time investment, though. But college isn't the waste of time you're trying to make it out to be.

Re: An open letter to the world - the war on education

#14
post #10
post #8

I should probably add some more detail to the story: 1)I have a place confirmed at a good college, Im considering if I should take it 2)I have a multitude of job offers although I have one in particular earmarked as favourite 3)Through spending so much time working with startups/government/media in London, I have built up a great network of contacts already - unfortunately, I'd be unable to to the same thing at colle…

How long is your college place good? Can you work for a year or two, save money and then still take it or do you have to reapply?

As far as I know about a year or two. The problem I'd have with that is the fact that I probably wouldn't be able to fund going back to college - taking a break for a few years would set me back about another $20,000

Re: An open letter to the world - the war on education

#16
post #5

[deleted]

I second this!

I also, wanted to start a business, just a few days before my freshman year started. Even so, I never felt that I had enough time for a company next to my studies and research* I would go to college again. There are just so many products I wouldn't even think of, let alone having the toolset to build them, had I not gone to school.

*Some of my friends did and still graduated. But most of them didn't do research, also. And I think university is, first of all, still about research.

Re: An open letter to the world - the war on education

#17
post #4

College. The point isn't so much to pigeonhole oneself into a safe job at a big company but to take some liberal-arts courses to better oneself and to avoid becoming a one-dimensional human being.

Okay, seriously, how is this advice not a gigantic blatant lie? Read science fiction written by knowledgeable people who put their knowledge in the story, go to science fiction conventions, attend random lectures in your city, read history books you're actually interested in, read basic textbooks in a variety of fields, go to kink events and learn about anything that interests you, visit a foreign country and stay th…

Matt, its not so much the price Im worried about, If I had to, I would make that much to fund my education, the thing I worry about is he value college brings. Would I be 'wasting' 2 years for all intents and purposes when I could be applying my time elsewhere?

Re: An open letter to the world - the war on education

#18

Also, let's clarify something -- when Josh says 'college,' he doesn't mean university, as per the American definition of that term, he means Sixth Form: British secondary education from the ages of 16-18, before heading to university.

Correct, thanks for clarifying that david, I should've mentioned it in the original post

Re: An open letter to the world - the war on education

#19
post #8

I should probably add some more detail to the story: 1)I have a place confirmed at a good college, Im considering if I should take it 2)I have a multitude of job offers although I have one in particular earmarked as favourite 3)Through spending so much time working with startups/government/media in London, I have built up a great network of contacts already - unfortunately, I'd be unable to to the same thing at colle…

I'll add a couple of points with no clear plan and trying not to lead you too much.

First, it's not education or work. You can get a job and have a day in college or get a part time job and do a part-time college course. You can do "distance learning" eg with the Open University and do a full time job. You can go to Uni and fit in some work around it (again varies with course and type of work).

You can get start up grants when you're young, eg from Princes Trust.

Consider taking a job for a year and then reassess your situation. Will going to college genuinely further your career (depends on the field IMO)?

When you leave full time education you'll have to declare your earnings to HMRC even if they don't reach the lower earnings limit, this will effect the household income if you still live with your parents and could affect whatever housing benefit and income support they have. I'm not an expert on such things (it can get very complicated) but it will be a factor if you're earning and stay at home.

Don't forget to concentrate on your exams!!

Re: An open letter to the world - the war on education

#20
post #14
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long is your college place good? Can you work for a year or two, save money and then still take it or do you have to reapply?

As far as I know about a year or two. The problem I'd have with that is the fact that I probably wouldn't be able to fund going back to college - taking a break for a few years would set me back about another $20,000

If you take point 2) - the job offer - you could save lots of money with your lean lifestyle, no? Or you find a big investor, found a limited and pay yourself a salary of which you save some money for school. Of course all that is easier said than done.

If 'college' in the UK (where do I find info?) is similar to the "Kollegstufe" in Germany, specifically Bavaria, I would very much recommend it. We were allowed to choose majors, stop taking some courses, attendance wasn't always required, lots of free time and still a great and demanding liberal arts education. It was ten times more fun and effective then all the years before.

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