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Ask HN: Thoughts on grad school? (CS PhD)

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Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on grad school? (CS PhD)

#11
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An NSF graduate fellowship is always a long-shot. Every good first- or second-year graduate student in the country is applying for one, and the competition is intense. More to the point: the competition is at such a high level that the outcome rests on things that are far more subjective than you might like. For example, volunteer experience and educational outreach can be decisive factors when all the candidates are…

Make a good story about how you want your work to help other people, and also play up the diversity angle if you have something like an immigrant parent. That's what my NSF friends did (except those who were so excellent that they didn't have to jump through hoops).

Yeah...sometimes that works. But if you and your friends thought of it, what makes you think that every other smart grad student in the country didn't think of it, too? (Except for the "have an immigrant parent" part, of course.)

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on grad school? (CS PhD)

#12
I can show that you don't need to finish a PhD in AI to do research and create AI to solve problems people have never before successfully approached. I've done it myself (though unfortunately most of it is locked behind a walled garden of IP).

If this is a course you're interested in, here's what I suggest.

1) Read up on AI breadth first and shallowly. Focus more on machine learning, search, filtering, and so forth, than heavier (and less successful) topics such as knowledge systems and computer vision.

2) Go through a list of startups that you like, use, or admire. Imagine the simplest cool/good/useful thing the startup could do with a cute little algorithm.

3) Develop the basic idea for it, contact the company, say you'd like to hack on it for cheap.

4) Kill the problem.

5) Use that startup as a reference. Find another one, but this time, ask that you can publish the method.

6) Repeat. Blog about your conquests. Explain how to replicate and extend your results. Eventually, focus on a bigger project to tackle. If your interests align with a research program at a university, consider entering the PhD program then. With this behind you, you'll probably get in anywhere.

If you're interested, I can give you some pointers on the development of quick and useful recommendation engines, which practically every startup can use. If you'd like, send me an email at daniellefong@daniellefong.com

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on grad school? (CS PhD)

#13
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An NSF graduate fellowship is always a long-shot. Every good first- or second-year graduate student in the country is applying for one, and the competition is intense. More to the point: the competition is at such a high level that the outcome rests on things that are far more subjective than you might like. For example, volunteer experience and educational outreach can be decisive factors when all the candidates are…

Make a good story about how you want your work to help other people, and also play up the diversity angle if you have something like an immigrant parent. That's what my NSF friends did (except those who were so excellent that they didn't have to jump through hoops).

The cost you pay for this is that your place in grad school and your fellowship are now predicated on your ability to bullshit. This emotional weight may be worse than just plain not getting the shiniest fellowships, or into the most prestigious school.

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on grad school? (CS PhD)

#15
My friend, I think you're more than set to get into CS grad school. Though please understand, the PhD enterpreneurs are few and far between. Most PhD students in CS and engineering don't understand how to develop their own great ideas, and they don't want to. PhD's are mostly for academics. Exceptions include places, like Harvard, MIT, and Stanford.

The upside is that you'll have lots of free time during a PhD curriculum to chase down your own ideas, and find the handful of like-minded people around campus. A PhD is a free time to pursue your own intellectual pursuit, and if you're already so energized, you'll do well.

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on grad school? (CS PhD)

#16
post #11
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make a good story about how you want your work to help other people, and also play up the diversity angle if you have something like an immigrant parent. That's what my NSF friends did (except those who were so excellent that they didn't have to jump through hoops).

Yeah...sometimes that works. But if you and your friends thought of it, what makes you think that every other smart grad student in the country didn't think of it, too? (Except for the "have an immigrant parent" part, of course.)

It's precisely because everyone else has thought of it that it's essential if you want to have even a fighting chance.

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on grad school? (CS PhD)

#17

I can show that you don't need to finish a PhD in AI to do research and create AI to solve problems people have never before successfully approached. I've done it myself (though unfortunately most of it is locked behind a walled garden of IP). If this is a course you're interested in, here's what I suggest. 1) Read up on AI breadth first and shallowly. Focus more on machine learning, search, filtering, and so forth,…

+1.

See this line from your autobiography?

Entered pure-math grad program in fall 2005. Passed quals but did poorly in courses. Left after 1 year (no degree) to work on Wall Street...

You're right to think that grad schools might look at this and say "hmmm". Sometimes past behavior does predict future results: You will have one eye on the door throughout your graduate career.

(Although some grad school, somewhere, will admit you anyway -- there's not a lot to lose; they get a very smart and cheap TA for 1 to N years. So you should be as sure as you can before you start school that you have found an adviser worth having who will take you on, so that you don't end up wandering around campus post-quals with a "will write thesis for food" sign.)

Whatever you do, don't tell them up-front that you're uninterested in academia. To an academic, that's like saying "I have no self-confidence and I'm going to quit under pressure" -- because precious few of them accept, deep in their hearts, that quitting academia is a meaningful career choice. You don't need to go into detail about your imaginary academic plans, but do make some vague noises about the possibility. Talk about how your brief excursion into the working world served to remind you of how much you prefer really meaningful, advanced research problems that could change the whole game. They'll eat that up.

But to heck with what other people think about your resume. Let's consider what you should be thinking: You've been to grad school, you obviously didn't like it much the first time, but now it looks really good compared to life on Wall Street. My take on this is that perhaps you need to try door number three: You ought to get out of Wall Street, a land of credentialists in suits, and try another job or two before you try grad school. Because

I'm interested in AI/machine learning research, which practically require a PhD, even in industry.

sounds frighteningly like the kind of thing I would have said before I started grad school. You know, back when I was really used to jumping through hoops. I had a really awesome track record at hoop-jumping -- big GPA, big GREs, NSF Fellowship, etc, etc. -- and, whenever I got confused about my future, I would just look around the arena until I found another hoop!

Try something else for a while. At this point, the Ph.D. program will wait for you. Take your future out for some casual dates before you marry it. If nothing else, why not start with an M.S. degree? Two years will give you plenty of time to network with folks in your new field.

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on grad school? (CS PhD)

#18
I can help answer #2 and #3.

#2. I received an NSF fellowship in grad school with 6 months of research experience. The experience probably helped, but getting an NSF is a long shot no matter what. I know of other students with similar qualifications who didn't get it.

#3. The prestige of your grad school matters in some circles but not in others. If there are particular companies that you want to work for, try to find out what their hiring practice is. Some companies place a high value on the school you graduated from, and some don't care at all.

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on grad school? (CS PhD)

#19
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make a good story about how you want your work to help other people, and also play up the diversity angle if you have something like an immigrant parent. That's what my NSF friends did (except those who were so excellent that they didn't have to jump through hoops).

The cost you pay for this is that your place in grad school and your fellowship are now predicated on your ability to bullshit. This emotional weight may be worse than just plain not getting the shiniest fellowships, or into the most prestigious school.

Most of academic life is predicated on your ability to bullshit. ;-)
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