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Game Design Curriculum

riotgames.com

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Re: Game Design Curriculum

#11
post #7

Bad joke sorry

People are downvoting you, but this is actually a ridiculously common thing in games. The entire game industry is pretty bad in general compared to tech or otherwise: one huge concept is that you have to "love the game"; you're willing to take low pay, low benefits, deal with overrun unpaid overtime hours, etc. because you "love the game". Most game companies freely tell you about how disposable you are because they…

How the hell does this fly? Why haven't employees sued the hell out of the company?

Why don't game engineers demand better? Start a company with decent work hours and comp and refuse to work elsewhere.

The games industry is sickly and broken.

Re: Game Design Curriculum

#12
post #11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are downvoting you, but this is actually a ridiculously common thing in games. The entire game industry is pretty bad in general compared to tech or otherwise: one huge concept is that you have to "love the game"; you're willing to take low pay, low benefits, deal with overrun unpaid overtime hours, etc. because you "love the game". Most game companies freely tell you about how disposable you are because they…

How the hell does this fly? Why haven't employees sued the hell out of the company? Why don't game engineers demand better? Start a company with decent work hours and comp and refuse to work elsewhere. The games industry is sickly and broken.

From 2018 case (just google "riot farting" honestly): https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/6454fy6neo6mwj3w/images/5-7...

> Why don't game engineers demand better? Start a company with decent work hours and comp and refuse to work elsewhere.

Some do! I would imagine many indie game companies are not like this. There's kind of a split, where you have "strictly-business" companies - many Asian MMORPG publishers that have a subsidiary in the US are like this. There is no gaming culture, it's just a standard workday. You might get some plushies at the office or a poster or two.

The "cool" companies, like Riot and Blizzard, complete with campus statues of game characters and a culture to match, conference rooms named after game characters or items, are what gamers seem to want to look up to, though.

If you've played any MMORPG long enough, you'll see a lot of recurring themes, kids gleefully willing to "answer support tickets for free" and "I'll be a GM they don't even need to pay me" -- this probably is part of the reason that produces toxic culture, along with the fact that if you strictly hire only gamers, you're already going to almost certainly have a higher toxicity demographic in the first place, depending on the game. If we're talking something like Harvest Moon or similar, of course there's going to be close to no toxic players.

Riot's primary product involves matchmaking you into 4 other random people that you have to cooperate with for anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour or more, where one person can lose the game for everyone by repeatedly dying to the enemy and making the enemy stronger. If you leave, you get banned or penalised for abandoning your team; this includes virtually unwinnable dragged-out hour long matches. You can kind of see how this playerbase would differ from, say, the usual singleplayer or co-op indie or puzzle game.

It's very difficult to boycott a game you've spent tens of thousands of hours on - a game that you're good at, that you have friends on, that you've spent heaps of cash shop currency on lootboxes for. Even if you desperately dislike the developer. This happens for many companies - look at all the loudmouthed people on reddit et al screaming about how no one should support EA or Blizzard, and then a month later go buy the new expansion pack for something and buy lootboxes and forget about it.

Re: Game Design Curriculum

#13
post #7

Bad joke sorry

People are downvoting you, but this is actually a ridiculously common thing in games. The entire game industry is pretty bad in general compared to tech or otherwise: one huge concept is that you have to "love the game"; you're willing to take low pay, low benefits, deal with overrun unpaid overtime hours, etc. because you "love the game". Most game companies freely tell you about how disposable you are because they…

In 2011 I interviewed for a Mobile position at Riot to make an accessory app for players. I was literally hazed like old school college hazings. At the end they asked me when I wanted to start. I told the lead dev to get lost and he begged me to "not be like that" but said if I was going to "be like that" then I wasn't a good fit anyway.

It is still to this day one of the worst experiences I've encountered.

Re: Game Design Curriculum

#14
post #11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are downvoting you, but this is actually a ridiculously common thing in games. The entire game industry is pretty bad in general compared to tech or otherwise: one huge concept is that you have to "love the game"; you're willing to take low pay, low benefits, deal with overrun unpaid overtime hours, etc. because you "love the game". Most game companies freely tell you about how disposable you are because they…

How the hell does this fly? Why haven't employees sued the hell out of the company? Why don't game engineers demand better? Start a company with decent work hours and comp and refuse to work elsewhere. The games industry is sickly and broken.

It's a demand problem, there's a huge number of young engineers who desperately want to get into games. They get burnt out after a few years and replaced with new ones.

That being said, things are slowly starting to change, and employees of game studios are starting to demand better. It's still bad in most places, but the discussion is happening.

Re: Game Design Curriculum

#15
I must say that they're probably the most competent studio on the market

LoL is probably the only game that I play (maybe once a year I decide to spend up to 50h over some peroid on one title like GTA V or something) for years and it almost always feels "fresh" and very competitive.

Re: Game Design Curriculum

#16

I must say that they're probably the most competent studio on the market LoL is probably the only game that I play (maybe once a year I decide to spend up to 50h over some peroid on one title like GTA V or something) for years and it almost always feels "fresh" and very competitive.

I think there's lots of studios just as competent or more competent than Riot. They've made so few games, it's hard to compare them to other studios in that way.

Re: Game Design Curriculum

#17
post #12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How the hell does this fly? Why haven't employees sued the hell out of the company? Why don't game engineers demand better? Start a company with decent work hours and comp and refuse to work elsewhere. The games industry is sickly and broken.

From 2018 case (just google "riot farting" honestly): https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/6454fy6neo6mwj3w/images/5-7... > Why don't game engineers demand better? Start a company with decent work hours and comp and refuse to work elsewhere. Some do! I would imagine many indie game companies are not like this. There's kind of a split, where you have "strictly-business" companies - many Asian MMORPG publishers that have a…

>"I'll be a GM they don't even need to pay me"

Is that Tibia reference?

Re: Game Design Curriculum

#18
(Riot's less than stellar history aside) I see these takes on game design a lot, and they're interesting to see because everyone takes their own stance on how to construct a fun game from distinct smaller concepts. Yahtzee’s Dev Diary [0] talks a lot about loops (And I give it a watch recommendation), while at your average GDC talk you hear about the concept of pillars [1] and their role in shaping games. I'm interested to hear if anyone else has resources on other game design takes.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbArC2mvokQ

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzQDVtysXjA

Re: Game Design Curriculum

#19
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From 2018 case (just google "riot farting" honestly): https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/6454fy6neo6mwj3w/images/5-7... > Why don't game engineers demand better? Start a company with decent work hours and comp and refuse to work elsewhere. Some do! I would imagine many indie game companies are not like this. There's kind of a split, where you have "strictly-business" companies - many Asian MMORPG publishers that have a…

>"I'll be a GM they don't even need to pay me" Is that Tibia reference?

You'll see this in almost every MMORPG (I segment out RPG because it's the most likely to get these - a MMOFPS like Destiny 2 generally just gets by with a few support tickets; people get isolated into clusters or small parties so it doesn't end up as obvious or exposed).

I do miss Tibia though :)

Re: Game Design Curriculum

#20

I must say that they're probably the most competent studio on the market LoL is probably the only game that I play (maybe once a year I decide to spend up to 50h over some peroid on one title like GTA V or something) for years and it almost always feels "fresh" and very competitive.

I think there's lots of studios just as competent or more competent than Riot. They've made so few games, it's hard to compare them to other studios in that way.

That's very fair

The way they do esport is huge part of their success

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